General > General Technical Chat

Another deadly 737 Max control bug just found!

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NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: blacksheeplogic on July 08, 2019, 10:40:28 pm ---Simplistic at best and leads to UI clutter, that 'important' indicator not seen because of 1,000 other indicators. The user needs an indication of the unexpected/abnormal not every time an automated system performs a routine action. In some cases, there is difficulty is in deciding if the action being performed is 'routine' and therefore warrants attention.

--- End quote ---
Relevant event in the Apollo 13 incident:

--- Quote ---The Mission Operations Report Apollo 13 recounts how the master caution and warning alarm had been turned off for a previous low-pressure reading on hydrogen tank 2, and so it did not trigger to call attention to the high oxygen pressure reading.
--- End quote ---

David Hess:

--- Quote from: SparkyFX on July 08, 2019, 08:53:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: floobydust on July 08, 2019, 05:10:28 pm ---Imagine never having driven a car (piloted an airplane) and writing control software for it.
--- End quote ---

This is why state machines need a really thorough documentation.
--- End quote ---

And why machines for which the state cannot be documented due to things like heap allocation should not be used in safety critical applications.  This also makes processor features which contain unknown state like caches, speculative execution, and multi-threading less desirable.

SparkyFX:

--- Quote from: David Hess on July 10, 2019, 03:49:44 am ---And why machines for which the state cannot be documented due to things like heap allocation should not be used in safety critical applications.  This also makes processor features which contain unknown state like caches, speculative execution, and multi-threading less desirable.

--- End quote ---

And then someone dropped "AI" in the room  :-DD

Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: David Hess on July 10, 2019, 03:49:44 am ---And why machines for which the state cannot be documented due to things like heap allocation should not be used in safety critical applications.  This also makes processor features which contain unknown state like caches, speculative execution, and multi-threading less desirable.

--- End quote ---
That ship has sailed. Literally. They use Windows to run warships.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/26/windows_boxes_at_sea/

David Hess:

--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on July 10, 2019, 03:54:12 pm ---
--- Quote from: David Hess on July 10, 2019, 03:49:44 am ---And why machines for which the state cannot be documented due to things like heap allocation should not be used in safety critical applications.  This also makes processor features which contain unknown state like caches, speculative execution, and multi-threading less desirable.
--- End quote ---

That ship has sailed. Literally. They use Windows to run warships.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/26/windows_boxes_at_sea/
--- End quote ---

Back in the mid 1980s, a Ticonderoga class cruiser off of San Diego lost all power to this problem.  The only illumination they had was flashlights and they had to be towed back to port.

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