Another Trademark, Copyright, Patent... Most Importantly "Trademark" Issue

[Mechatrommer]

i wonder how can i legally and officially register a keyword(s) so it will become my "Trademark". about the Copyright, for a "Product" or "Hard Design" we probably have to go through "Patenting" process which has been discussed here that costs millions. I googled about "Copyright of Software" it seems there is no specific way for that except you embed a copyright file into your "codes" or "executables", and hope someone will not steal or reverse engineer it for comercial purpose. is it? now another matter is "Trademark", i found this site, probably this is starting point on "Trademarking" a Name.. http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp but quickly reading it, it seems to be the same process as "Patenting", hire an attorney etc. is it? if it is, then it probably costs another millions? why is it so complicated? why cant it be as simple as registering a domain name in the "internet"? pay a little amount yearly to registars, and then the "Name" is yours?

edit: the above link is for USA, others and my country also have their own trademark site, so it seems this is not an international issue, no unification globally. i can make my own "Windows" or "Apple" product and legally sell in my country? what will happen if i extend the border to international sell? will USA government asks my government to sue me?

[GeoffS]

There's a big difference between a registered design, trademark, copyright and patent.

A trademark can be registered if it doesn't already exist. Procedures vary depending on your local legislation, this site may be a good start.

[Mechatrommer]

Procedures vary depending on your local legislation, this site may be a good start.

yup i edited my first post that this is specific to my country. there is no unification between USA Trademark and Malaysia Trademark? i checked there i need to pay RM20 per hour to check if my Mark is already registered or not, wherever that is. more specifically from here www.myipo.gov.my/cap-dagangan

[Mechatrommer]

DOES MALAYSIAN REGISTRATION GIVE PROTECTION ABROAD?
No, if protection of trade mark is required in other countries, it will be necessary to apply for registration separately in each countries. However, a Malaysian application can be used a basis for claiming priority in countries which are party to the Paris Convention and World Trade Organization (WTO).

well, that answered my question. if i want to sell my product to 100 countries then i need to register 100 times.

[GeoffS]

DOES MALAYSIAN REGISTRATION GIVE PROTECTION ABROAD?
No, if protection of trade mark is required in other countries, it will be necessary to apply for registration separately in each countries. However, a Malaysian application can be used a basis for claiming priority in countries which are party to the Paris Convention and World Trade Organization (WTO).

well, that answered my question. if i want to sell my product to 100 countries then i need to register 100 times.

What this means is that if you have a trademark registered in Malaysia then that does give you priority over some trying to register the same trademark in another country, assuming that they are signatories to WIPO. While you would stand a good chance of winning such a trademark battle, you'll still have to pay to take the matter to court. Protection of a trademark can be a costly business.

[Mechatrommer]

What this means is that if you have a trademark registered in Malaysia then that does give you priority over some trying to register the same trademark in another country, assuming that they are signatories to WIPO. While you would stand a good chance of winning such a trademark battle, you'll still have to pay to take the matter to court. Protection of a trademark can be a costly business.

USA site i linked above provides free word search whether a trademark is already exist or not. i'm wondering if their database is complete including trademarks from other (all) countries?

say if i register the name "Orange Designer" in Malaysia, will it turn up in USA site? if not, then someone else may unknowingly re-register "Orange Designer" in USA then later battle will begins. once the court is involved, then it will be costly, regardless of the case, and regardless if the opponent just do it for fun or solely want to screw you up. now we try to avoid this clashing. like ICANN, it will not be possible to register "already registered" domain name. if there is "WIPO", why not they handle this matter personally? (they can charge each participating country to run it, or yearly subscription from the trademark owner), we can search their "centralized" database before registering, internationally or locally. that will make alot less hassle and avoid clashing or dispute.

ps: why they havent think about it? i'm so genius!

[GeoffS]

It's up to the trademark owner to enforce their exclusive right to the use of their trademark. If you have the trademark 'Orange Designer' registered in, say, Malaysia, then the only thing stopping someone registering it in, say, the USA is you, the trademark owner.
I'm not sure of the correct procedures to follow but it can end up being expensive, even if you win.

A recent example was on this forum was a user was selling a cheap knock off of a Saleae USB logic analyser, labelled as a Saleae branded item.  Saleae say that this has happened a few times and while they are flattered, they send a cease and desist letter to the offender hoping this is enough. As I said, it's expensive to enforce a trademark/brandname.

[jucole]

"Copyright of Software" it seems there is no specific way for that except you embed a copyright file into your "codes" or "executables", and hope someone will not steal or reverse engineer it for comercial purpose. is it?

In the UK I believe if you create some code you automatically become the copyright owner; however if someone reverse engineers it and sells it there is nothing you can do; unless you can prove it's your code.

OT.  Artwork copyright is nice because as an artist if I do a painting or drawing etc I instantly become the copyright owner;  if I copy an old master painting I'm ok so long as I don't pass it off as a real old master painting!

[G7PSK]

Yes anything you write is copy-write in the UK, its a good idea to put the date and a claim to the copy-write on it but basically that is all you have to do. trade marks are another kettle of fish though, you register your trade mark with the intellectual property office (used to be the department of trade and industry when I last did it) and pay your fee, its then up to you to protect it. Never put your country into a trade mark though if you registered yourself say as "electronic design UK" anyone is able to take the first part of the name and use it or stick another country onto the end or the beginning. It is that sort of reason that it is a good idea to get a lawyer to help with the registration of trade marks or trade names.   

[Mechatrommer]

Protection of a trademark can be a costly business.

now i get it. "registering" and "protecting" are two entirely different matter. the winning chance in "protecting process" depends on the "registering process". who registered first gets more chance. "protecting" means we have to hire an attorney and court etc etc. now let me lead to OT issue... if someone want to fight for my "Orange Designer" trademark that i registered earlier. he is rich he hire a top class attorney, he brings this matter to court. and i dont have money i cannot afford an attorney to attend court, will i lose my trademark "registration"? even before the 10 years expiration? (legally, let us exclude the possibility of the court being bribed or i get death threat).

[JoeyP]

now i get it. "registering" and "protecting" are two entirely different matter. the winning chance in "protecting process" depends on the "registering process". who registered first gets more chance. "protecting" means we have to hire an attorney and court etc etc. now let me lead to OT issue... if someone want to fight for my "Orange Designer" trademark that i registered earlier. he is rich he hire a top class attorney, he brings this matter to court. and i dont have money i cannot afford an attorney to attend court, will i lose my trademark "registration"? even before the 10 years expiration? (legally, let us exclude the possibility of the court being bribed or i get death threat).

In the US, the answer is yes. There is a 5 year period during which anyone can challenge your trademark. It doesn't mean they'll win, and unless they have a real case they probably won't, but it will still cost you to go to court.

One other thing to be aware of is that in the US, more than one person can register the same trademark as long as there's no overlap of its use. For example, if an interior designer has already registered "Orange Designer" for their use, a software company could very well register the same trademark for use in a different business.

[ptricks]

Another option is trade secret, which is how things like the formula for Coke are classified.  Trade secrets do not have to be disclosed to anyone not approved by you  and last forever unlike patents which can expire. Anyone who reverse engineers the product violates the laws. The laws differ so make sure you get someone that knows the different versions.

[jucole]

Anyone who reverse engineers the product violates the laws.

The reverse engineering of software in the US is generally a breach of contract as most EULAs specifically prohibit it, and courts have found such contractual prohibitions to override the copyright law which expressly permits it; see Bowers v. Baystate Technologies.[22][23]

Sec. 103(f) of the DMCA (17 U.S.C. § 1201 (f)) says that if you legally obtain a program that is protected, you are allowed to reverse-engineer and circumvent the protection to achieve interoperability between computer programs (i.e., the ability to exchange and make use of information).

Even so,  I wouldn't like Coke'a'cola heavies after me if I was to try and sell a surprisingly similar product! ;-)

[BravoV]

say if i register the name "Orange Designer" in Malaysia, will it turn up in USA site? if not, then someone else may unknowingly re-register "Orange Designer" in USA then later battle will begins. once the court is involved, then it will be costly, regardless of the case, and regardless if the opponent just do it for fun or solely want to screw you up. now we try to avoid this clashing. like ICANN, it will not be possible to register "already registered" domain name. if there is "WIPO", why not they handle this matter personally? (they can charge each participating country to run it, or yearly subscription from the trademark owner), we can search their "centralized" database before registering, internationally or locally. that will make alot less hassle and avoid clashing or dispute.

ps: why they havent think about it? i'm so genius!

You missed the word "sovereignty", its not that simple like registering an internet domain name.

Imagine you're a trademark official in "Iran"  , and you're facing choices to give the legality between a local Iranian company vs Apple an US company in your country, btw Iran also member of WIPO. In this particular case both parties submitted for a new trademark called "iWatch". 

Btw, you're also a proud Iranian that currently somehow not very keen on anything smells America. Guess whats the outcome ? 

Now, change the scenario again in China, and also you're somehow a hardcore nationality minded and a really proud Chinese trademark official, I guess this also will ended similar as in Iran.