Any suggestion for a smart TV solution?

[zapta]

I decided to move away from my old smart tv appliance (it's a box that connect to the internet, TV, DVR and audio system and control all of them) and look for better solutions. My main requirements are

* Good Netflix experience (I am in the US)
* Good Youtube experience.
* Nice to have: Good Amazon Prime video experience.
* Nice to have: full browser (e.g. to play CSPAN videos).
* Remote control with full alphanumeric keyaobrd.
* Can control/play the TIVO DVR.
* Preferably a single remote control that controls the TV, TIVO and audio system.

Cost is not a major issue but having a simple to operate system is.

Any suggestion?

[German_EE]

Purchase a second-hand PC and the best monitor you can find. Run your operating system of choice on the PC and connect it to the network knowing that you (hopefully) have a fully patched machine that won't phone home to the manufacturer with the list of your TV viewing habits.

Note that some monitors are available with TV tuners and speakers but they don't have network ports.

[Mechanical Menace]

I'd honestly go for a passively cooled mini ITX system. May be more hassle than a ready made solution but you will get exactly what you want with your choice of OS and control etc.

[zapta]

I'd honestly go for a passively cooled mini ITX system. May be more hassle than a ready made solution but you will get exactly what you want with your choice of OS and control etc.

What remote control? How do I optimize the UI to a hand help remote control (vs. a keyboard + mouse)? How do I control the DVR and audio system? How do I select the video source (DVR vs browser)?

I can get a computer, for example an Mac Mini, but how do I get a living room appliance experience out of it?  It's the lean-forward vs recline-back experience differences.

[Muttley Snickers]

Greetings zapta,

I can only speak from my own experience and this is our second smart tv, the first one was cheap garbage and fortunately we got a full refund after twelve months of nightmares and headaches, the current one is a 32 inch LG and I have posted previously about some of it's limitations.
It is a browser only with a cut down version of chrome, Youtube works fine, can save bookmarks but cannot see the full url of some sites so posting links means going back to the pc or using a pen and paper and no copy or paste either, cant save pictures and I never used Netflix and think it was a problem for some other LG users from memory, cant install apps other than LG's own which requires a signup affair, it does have a built in pvr and can play mpegs and pictures from a usb drive, firmware upgrades are in the order of 600 meg and dont seem to alter anything so I think more info goes out than comes in and LG have a history in this regard, google LG spies on users.

I mainly use a wired mouse with the on screen keyboard but do have a Logitech wireless keyboard with a track pad that also works fine and so does a universal remote, you can get a LG remote that is basically a wireless pointer and it enables voice commands, I could waffle on for hours about this things  pro's and con's but as others have pointed out a smart tv is generally a compromise and not a solution.

Best Regards and hope it helps.

Muttley

[wraper]

Purchase a second-hand PC and the best monitor you can find.

AFAIK 32" is the biggest monitor you can buy (except those ultra wide things). And it will cost significantly (likely several times) more than a 42-50" TV. Not economical at all. Much cheaper to just buy a TV and PC if you need one.

[Halcyon]

I just purchased a Philips 65" LCD for myself and am very impressed with it. The model I purchased was the 65PFT6909/79 for AUD$2310.

I'm not a big "smart TV" user, but it does come with some nifty features, such as an RF remote control with a keyboard and mouse on the backside:



Even though the remote uses RF, the TV still has a built-in IR receiver so you can use your own learning remotes, which I thought was a nice touch. The image quality is just superb and it even came with 2 sets of 3D glasses (not that I use 3D content anyway).

The input and power connections on the back are all "downward" facing so you can mount it almost flush against a wall without worrying about cables sticking out the back. Not uncommon these days but still nice.

It comes with the basic "smart" functions such as YouTube, Netflix and web browsing, but it's not bogged down by them like other manufacturers. For more advanced stuff, you'll need to connect it to a PC. I'll be connecting it to a machine running Kodi (formally known as XBMC). You can connect a USB drive to these Philips TV's and it will act as a PVR (hence the record/playback buttons on the remote). You can also connect a USB webcam and use it for Skype video calls if that's your thing. Plenty of inputs. Just a really nice TV in my opinion.

[Mechanical Menace]

What remote control? How do I optimize the UI to a hand help remote control (vs. a keyboard + mouse)? How do I control the DVR and audio system? How do I select the video source (DVR vs browser)?

TBH that all depends. Are you set on using the TIVO as your DVR and not the HTPC for example? Many a DVB tuner is also an HDMI capture card and often come with a remote. Are you averse to using something like MythTV, I know you prefer *nix's and get the feeling OsX is your preferred home OS so Kodi/XBMC would be a good place to start looking. I can't really comment on TIVO too much as they never took off over here  but there're always IR blasters if there's no other option.

Me personally my HTPC was my DVR when I still bothered with broadcast TV and I use my phone as a remote. An IR blaster goes to my TV for volume control and to select other sources as I don't want the extra delay of capturing games on my PC and then sending that output to the TV.

I can get a computer, for example an Mac Mini, but how do I get a living room appliance experience out of it?  It's the lean-forward vs recline-back experience differences.

You can have the option of either, but like I said it would be more hassle to set up. I just get the feeling you prefer to have as much control over your devices as possible so thought it could be a realistic option for you.

[zapta]

TBH that all depends. Are you set on using the TIVO as your DVR and not the HTPC for example?

I don't mind changing to another DVR. At the time I liked the user interface of TIVO more than the the setup box that Comcast (our cable company) and used it instead using decryption card I got from Comcast.

Also, I am not looking for a unix experience or any other computer OS experience and prefer a more 'appliancy' experience. Also, investing significant time in one time system setting is OK as long as the final experience is simple, easy, and intuitive.

[codeboy2k]

It comes with the basic "smart" functions such as YouTube, Netflix and web browsing, but it's not bogged down by them like other manufacturers. For more advanced stuff, you'll need to connect it to a PC. I'll be connecting it to a machine running Kodi (formally known as XBMC). You can connect a USB drive to these Philips TV's and it will act as a PVR (hence the record/playback buttons on the remote). You can also connect a USB webcam and use it for Skype video calls if that's your thing. Plenty of inputs. Just a really nice TV in my opinion.

I'm firmly against smart tv's.   Generally, I expect them to be completely unsafe, full of security holes and containing dumbed down youtube, netflix or hulu browsers that only get dumber over time.  What's the point if your going to connect one of the inputs to a PC anyways?

They're always listening to your room speech (those with voice control) and sending it to third parties.  They may not get OS updates from the manufacturers, so security holes don't get plugged.  Plus, some have started pushing ads at you while watching local movies from a windows home server or plex media server (opt-out, but still... WTF?)

That Philips TV might be a good TV, but personally I couldn't care less about the Smart TV stuff and would want to labotomize it if I could.

[tszaboo]

I would definitely consider buying a Nvidia Shield. That is like Android TV on turbo mode.
Except it costs twice the US price in Europe.

[linux-works]

I bought a vizio 'smart tv' a few months ago.  it was not even my choice; but beyond a certain size, they ONLY were selling so-called smart tv's.

I'll say this: every single smart tv is a privacy violation, the likes of which we have not seen before on CE devices.  you could not PAY me to enable smart-tv mode.  mine is stuck in dumb mode and the only control I use is the on/off button on it.  I have not given it an ip addr or ssid and I have not been forced to accept buggy software updates (that others have found they cannot downgrade from and its now worse than when they bought the set).

I use a fanless i7 mini-itx box at home.  it will play anything (boot win7 or linux but win7 has better video support OF COURSE, sigh).  unlike hardware decoders, if someone encodes a movie using 'strange' parameters, software decoders can still deal with it.  I used to have a popcorn hour (2 diff models) hardware player.  it always played the 'proper' files very well, but encoded files from home users would often play badly, since the chipset assumes some standard hardware encoder set of parms.

DRM is something I refuse to deal with.  that means I canceled (years ago) my cable-tv, sat-tv, netflix and even roof top antennas (since the content on free-tv is now unwatchable to me).

for remote control, I simply use a wireless keyboard that has a touchpad on it.   works fine and I can browse the web, reply to emails, whatever I want.

its not an appliance, but if you do run win7 and 'play by the rules' you can enjoy (...) drm stuff and still be able to play software-based encoded files.

about 5 years ago, fanless pc's were horribly underpowered.  now, I find it hard to justify a chip-based hw player or streamer.  they all have horrible UI's, they have bugs and bugs and people who simply cannot or will not fix them, their answer is usually 'a new box is due out, buy that one'.  I had to give up on the popcorn hour since they simply did not have the proper skill level in their engineers and it was always 2 steps forward and 1 step backward at each update interval.  look, you pay peanuts and you generally get low-skilled 'programmers' and the commodity CE market is all about the race to the bottom, so don't expect any quality there, to be honest.

[zapta]

for remote control, I simply use a wireless keyboard that has a touchpad on it.   works fine and I can browse the web, reply to emails, whatever I want.

Our ideal is a single small remote control with QWERTY keyboard that controls all the living room appliances. Currently we use this Sony control which is awesome, rugged and easy to hold and use. It even has a so so touch pad hidden one of the buttons.



I will start surveying and try the smart TV buddy boxes on the market. Some of them such as the Asus Cube seems to have what we need but their reviews on amazon are mediocre in general and there is no clear winner, regardless of cost.

I don't care much about the privacy of the buddy box because Tivo, Netflix Youtube and Amazon already log what and when we watch so it can't be much worse. Microphones and cameras in living room appliances is a big no-no for us though.

[linux-works]

yeah, avoid the bundled smart tv services.  make the tv just a display and pick your own smart devices to connect to it.

tv manufacturers are the LAST ones I'd trust to correctly implement any kind of networking or security software.  hell, my vizio has major bugs in just doing video correctly, sometimes; the idea that these jokers can turn out quality and trustable code would be a laugh if it weren't already a cry.

I have a popcorn hour streamer box, almost still new in its shipping box that you're welcome to try and see if you like it.  I lost touch with the online community years ago but at the time, they were into all the streaming services and such.  let me know if you want to borrow it and try it out.  its doing me no good just sitting here in its box and I'm not really into the appliance stuff anymore now that I have my i7 doing all I want it to do.

[Galenbo]

yeah, avoid the bundled smart tv services.  make the tv just a display and pick your own smart devices to connect to it.

Exactly my experience. Wasted enough time trying to get the image of my IP-cameras, do some simple domotica stuff, transscript videos with subtitles...
None of it is stable.

Search for the simplest TV that acts as a monitor (look for startup time, CEC, source selector)

I made a noiseless intel PC with HDMI in a 19" box, above the 19" amplifier.
Keyboard/mouse is this:


Don't write letters in Word with it, but it's good enough for decently controlling VLC and a browser.

1 remote doesn't work, because:
-only the amplifier has FM station control
-only the TV remote has source control
-cable decoder remote has buttons for all the functions
-network and other stuff has to be done with the PC keyboard

Audio etc is CEC HDMI4 connected, works most of the time between TV, amplifier and cable decoder, but are there already compatible motherboards for it, so you can auto switch on/off other devices, and connect volume control?

.

[zapta]

A quick followup,

After trying a few TV buddy boxes we gave up. Instead we got rid of our regressing smart TV box (Sony Google TV), upgraded our old Tivo HD to Tivo Roamio and got a Tivo Slide Pro remote.  With this configuration things works pretty good and we use a single remote to control everything including the DVR, TV, A/V and 'smart TV' functionalities. The remote has qwerty keys for quick typing and search, and we have good user experience with Amazon videos, Netflix and Youtube, in addition to DVR and live TV. We did lost web browser functionality and access to Google Play but can live with that. Life is good again.

[German_EE]

With 4700 posts it's a wonder that you have time to watch TV 

[rdl]

Why not just use a PC with a TV as the monitor? You can get little Mini PC machines for cheap these days. 1080p, built in WiFi (and BT 4.0 for wireless keyboard and mouse), 2 GHz quad core processor that runs Windows or Linux easily, small enough to attach to the back of the TV, under $200 with SSD and 4 GB RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164024

If I wasn't into PC gaming, I'd have one on my living room TV. Instead, I have one on my workbench.

[zapta]

With 4700 posts it's a wonder that you have time to watch TV 

4700?  Must be a bug in the post counter, like counting x100.

Why not just use a PC with a TV as the monitor?

Living room experience and a single remote you can operate in the dark were mandatory requirements.

[Galenbo]

Why not just use a PC with a TV as the monitor?

Living room experience and a single remote you can operate in the dark were mandatory requirements.

Single remote that has alphanumeric+mouse for the pc + infrared to startup/closedown + can change channel/input on TV is a hard one.

Apart from that, there's nothing wrong with my dedicated-optimized-windows pc as a living room experience.
Witch opposition do you see?

[funkyant]

I've been using an Intel Compute Stick with a Logitech K400. I run Kodi mostly, but it's good for just about everything else too.

I have a WD Mycloud with all media on it. It runs so well that we forget about the tech behind it and just use it. I think I've rebooted the Compute stick once in 6 months. Mycloud has never been rebooted in about 2 years. It just works.


http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html
http://www.logitech.com/en-roeu/product/wireless-touch-keyboard-k400r

http://www.wdc.ae/en/products/products.aspx?id=1140

http://kodi.tv/

Kodi also has an amazing remote app for Android and/or iOS

Edit: Oh, and Kodi is free, open source software.

[Karel]

I recommend to use a big pc monitor or the simplest TV, in combination with this: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/mintbox/

[rdl]

That's similar, but not identical, to the Gigabyte Brix system I posted previously, though to me it seems a bit less desirable and at a higher price. It does come already assembled and ready to run. I guess that's worth something.

I recommend to use a big pc monitor or the simplest TV, in combination with this: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/mintbox/

[zapta]

Apart from that, there's nothing wrong with my dedicated-optimized-windows pc as a living room experience.
Witch opposition do you see?

I didn't say it's wrong ;-)  There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Our preference is for a single remote that controls everything and can be operated by one hand with touch only (once you get used to it).

[NiHaoMike]

I would definitely consider buying a Nvidia Shield. That is like Android TV on turbo mode.
Except it costs twice the US price in Europe.

I can certainly recommend it. For the $150 or so sale price in the US, you'd be hard pressed to find anything better without spending a whole lot more. It uses the same graphics processing technology found in the latest PC GPUs and will please all but the most dedicated of videophiles.

And for the audiophiles, the Shield TV supports HD audio over USB. The audio outputs built into the game controller and remote do no better than cheap motherboard audio, which is a shame since that could have been a great audio over Wifi solution.

For the actual display, get IPS if you want the very best, MVA if you can't justify the high price.