Anybody have teardowns of newer Amprobe DMMs?

[FenderBender]

Hi,

I realize I've made a few threads lately, so if I'm annoying you, just tell me, "FenderBender shut the hell up!"...Anyway, I've also been realizing that I'm kind of lacking in the test equipment department and it is hard for me to make some measurements with one $50 meter, and I want to move on with my learning. So I'm looking at another DMM (as well as a scope, bench PSU, and a function generator). Eventually, I'll have those...but that could be in 10 years. Another DMM never hurts though, and at least the ones I'll pick won't be that expensive.

Okay, so on with the question. I've been looking at the "new" (?) Amprobe lineup, which seems to consist of meters like the AM-250, 270, 140, 160. I'm specifically interested in the AM-270, but I think the build would be similar all around. Again, I hesitate to say new because they might just be Meterman designs...reused...rebadged...again. But maybe not.

So does anyone have any pictures of the internals of any of these meters? Wondering if I should get one of these or a Fluke 17B or something, (which I was actually surprised by the quality of)

Thanks.

[Lanman]

I just picked up a new Amprobe AM-140-A.  I almost jumped on a new Fluke 87V, but for what I do with it these days that probably would have been overkill.  As much as I would have loved to own another Fluke, I went with the AM-140-A.   The accuracy & functionality will work just fine for my needs.  Although I'm still having Fluke envy.  You know what they say "If it works, it must be a Fluke". 

Overall I'm pleased with the build quality of the Amprobe.  Decent component layout, quality soldering throughout, and gold plated contacts on the circuit board.  Heavy duty plastic blast shield around the fuses and battery.  The selector switch is crisp and stops precisely at each position.  It will not float between positions.  It feels solid yet still allows you to rotate the selector with one hand while the meter is flat on the bench.  The fold out stand and belt clip in the back are functional but not the highest quality.  I'd never use the belt clip anyway and the stand does its job so I'm OK with it.  Test probes are nice gold plated probes, but not the threaded tipped probes.  I'll upgrade to something where I can swap out tips.  The audible continuity test is instant, which I really appreciate.   I'll post some pics of the internals to this thread tomorrow.  Don't have the time to do it tonight.

Dave,
Clovis, Ca     

[FenderBender]

Thanks for the input! I like Amprobe as a whole, but there has been so many name changes and ownership changes that I'm not sure what to expect.

I'm still trying to determine whether I need TRMS right now or not...since I don't do very much with AC at all these days, which is why I'm attracted to something like Fluke 17B which is like $80 and has, to be honest, VERY good build quality for the price. It's not a USA-Made Fluke but they've made sure Uni-T, the OEM for the 17B, keeps QC really tight. All of the pics I've seen of the 15,17,and 18B look really top notch. It's not TRMS and the accuracy isn't really all that special, but nor are my needs. I'd take a better quality product over something with more "features", anyday.

Which is also why I'm attracted to Amprobe. Not wildly expensive yet they typically do a very decent job with build quality and making it a good value. Amprobe (and others) are probably 80% as good (in all regards) as a Gossen, Agilent, or Fluke meter, but might only be 30% of the price. Is that remaining 20% important to you? For me: Not quite yet. I do not do any professional electrical work, (because I'm still a senior in high school), and by the time I do start working, my $500 meter I bought in the 12th grade may no longer be relevant in 10 years. So I'll stick to the cheaper stuff for now.

Advice to myself and possibly to other people contemplating the same situation.^

[Lanman]

OK I found a little time.  The meter is a bit beefier than a typical Fluke 114.  Probably more in line with the Fluke 87.  It still fits in my hand just fine.  Heavy duty rubber bumpers all the way around so I'm certain it could handle a drop from the bench to the concrete without any problem.  All the screws have water proof rubber seals although I don't think the meter is water resistant.  The battery door is held in with two screws and again seems like it's made to be water resistant.  The body is sold.  Grab it and twist and there is no creaking, no squeaking, no movement of any kind.         




There are six screws holding the body together and a couple compression tabs.  After you remove the screws, you separate the halves at the battery end and keep pulling until the compression tabs at the top release.  Decent component layout and good soldering all the way around.  The test probe sockets are soldered to the board with four pins per socket and they provide a solid mechanical connection.   Sorry, I didn't feel like disassembling the display board.  It's secured to the main board via two screws and several mounting tabs.  Everything is gold plated.  Even the fuse holders are gold plated.   






So far I have no complaints.  Although, I haven't really had much time to really use it.  I've done some quick & dirty tests with it like measuring some known voltages and component values, and it is quick and accurate.  I don't care for the green backlit display but I never use the back lighting anyway so that's not really something I should complain about.  Replacing fuses requires taking the meter a part, but I don't think I've ever blown a fuse in a meter so again not a big deal to me. 

As a former engineer for HP Labs, it feels sacrilegious to not be using a high end Fluke.  Being a former engineer for HP Labs, I probably don't need a high end Fluke.  I'm having a hard time convincing myself of that, but I'll get used to it.  So far I'm not disappointed in the Amprobe.  Plus I saved a little money to fill up my parts bins.   

Just my 2 cents.
Dave
Clovis Ca.   

[FenderBender]

Thanks Lanman. I'm sure others will appreciate the pictures. I doubt I'm the only one who wants to know what the inside of a multimeter they want to buy looks like...

The layout looks a little crowded for my taste, but then again, what do I know. Isolation/walls around the fuses looks good. Components selection looks decent for the price. Nothing looks shoddy, or a major turn off.

Well what this means for my own decision, I don't quite know....Your meter is around $50 more than the AM-270 which I was looking at. What that means for construction quality, again, I don't know. God this $80 Fluke is so tempting. But these other meters do have a bit more to offer...shikes.

Thanks.

[Lanman]

Keep in mind if you don't buy the Fluke from an authorized dealer, there won't be any warranty.  That's one of the issues I had with the 17B.  I would have ordered from Hong Kong which is out of my market thus no warranty.  Not sure how big a deal that really is with a Fluke, but it's a consideration.   If I were you, I wouldn't discount getting a TRMS meter.  It's well worth it in the long run.  Don't think of this meter as a stepping stone.  Even when you get something better down the road, you'll probably keep this one around.  I have several that I keep around for various reasons.

The Amprobe 37XR also has a very good reputation.   

Dave,
Clovis Ca.   

[FenderBender]

Well the 115/117 are other viable options. I have an AM-220 right now, and it's alright and better than most meters in it's price bracket, but it's really nothing special and I think it's reliable, just...not THAT reliable.

The 115 is only around $20 more than the 17B, and has True-RMS etc. Seems like a good deal. I was mistaken with the $80 17B. They are actually around $100-110. So actually a bit pricey for non-TRMS.

[Zero999]

I don't own a Fluke and never will unless I get one for free.

I've used a Fuke at work (can't remember which model) and it looks like a fairly decent meter but it doesn't really have anything a cheaper Amprobe meter hasn't. Amprobe are owed by Fluke nowadays. I think when you buy Fluke you're paying a lot for the name which is why I'd never bother.

[Lanman]

I agree for the most part.  That's why I went with the Amprobe this time.  The thing with Fluke, for me, is I've never used one that failed me in anyway.  A few have taken my careless abuse and kept going strong.  The tendency is to stick with what works and for me thats always been a Fluke. 

I have no doubt my new Amprobe will do just fine even over the long haul.  It's just getting use to putting my faith in a different product.  Now if the Amprobe bursts into flames one day then its over.     The build quality is a little better than I expected.  I'm sure the Amprobe will serve me well over the long haul.

Dave,
Clovis Ca.     

I don't own a Fluke and never will unless I get one for free.

I've used a Fuke at work (can't remember which model) and it looks like a fairly decent meter but it doesn't really have anything a cheaper Amprobe meter hasn't. Amprobe are owed by Fluke nowadays. I think when you buy Fluke you're paying a lot for the name which is why I'd never bother.

[FenderBender]

Good point. Fluke meters are nearly indestructible and  you can tell that a lot of research went into their designs. Fluke has been the golden standard for the last few decades and I guess rightfully so. If you want to be a professional electrician, it just seems like common practice to have a Fluke. However, an Amprobe, Extech, B&K etc. can typically do everything a Fluke could do for quite a bit cheaper.

I guess it's up to you whether you think you can trust a brand other than Fluke.

In regards to your meter, I'm still confused why they decided to cram all of the major stuff onto the front of the PCB instead of putting some of the stuff on the back to alleviate crowding...but anyway...

[Kiriakos-GR]

Fluke has been the golden standard for the last few decades and I guess rightfully so.

If you continue writing such sweet talk about Fluke, I bet that they will offer you one as gift. 

Any way do not let me stand in your way, keep it up. LOL
I respect your feelings, but I think that my own wider funboysm its a healthier condition. 

[Lawsen]

Amprobe has several lines and some of the Amprobe HD110C is probably as good and expensive as Fluke:

http://www.instrumart.com/products/33970/amprobe-hd110c-heavy-duty-multimeter?s_kwcid=TC|23075|amprobe%20hd110c||S|p|6896411284&gclid=COyW5fD9pKsCFTAaQgod2gy-3w

I use a Fluke 12 (discontinued), that was once Fluke's cheapest multimeter.  It has problems with dirty button capacitance keypad.  I have taken it apart and cleaned it and aligned it and it works.  Fluke does not support the Fluke 12 anymore.  I cannot afford a new one.  I have used other Flukes, the 8060A and traded it in for another multimeter, a Fluke 187, because it was not worth fixing.  Fluke did included a detailed service manual with the Fluke 8060A.  It was traded into Fluke for the Fluke 187 (discontinued) awhile ago for less than half its price.  I wished that I tried to fix the Fluke 8060A, but it stopped measuring the voltage and I did not burned it out.  The discrete IC broke with age.  I wonder could I have fixed it.  The 8060A could not make any measurements, the digital display just displays a random number.  It could be the computer processor?  The fuses are not opened.  I cannot go back into time to get back the 8060A. 

[alm]

I don't own a Fluke and never will unless I get one for free.

Why not? I wouldn't pay retail prices for them, but that doesn't mean I don't want them at any price > $0. $10 would be quite satisfactory. As would $100 for a high-end one. I tend to buy used equipment for that reason.

I've used a Fuke at work (can't remember which model) and it looks like a fairly decent meter but it doesn't really have anything a cheaper Amprobe meter hasn't. Amprobe are owed by Fluke nowadays. I think when you buy Fluke you're paying a lot for the name which is why I'd never bother.

I'm sure they are well aware of their good name and use it to earn some extra profit, but that doesn't mean that you're just paying for the name. The fact that Amprobe is owned by Fluke (Danaher) doesn't mean the engineering is the same. Why would they try to compete with themselves? I assume they bought Amprobe to get some part of the cheaper DMM market without attaching the expensive 'Fluke' brand to cheaper meters. I would actually expect them to increase the difference between the expensive Flukes and cheaper Amprobes after the acquisition, but I haven't been following the Amprobe product range closely.

[FenderBender]

Fluke has been the golden standard for the last few decades and I guess rightfully so.

If you continue writing such sweet talk about Fluke, I bet that they will offer you one as gift. 

Any way do not let me stand in your way, keep it up. LOL
I respect your feelings, but I think that my own wider funboysm its a healthier condition. 

I do not own any Flukes either. I  won't get one unless they ever become cheaper or they start making some value oriented units. I'm just saying, the few times I've seen electricians with DMMs and the many times I've seen EEs with DMMs, theyve just about always been Flukes.

[FenderBender]

And yeah I've seen the HD110C. Looks like a nice meter. I'm sure the build would have to be pretty good on a meter like that. I'm currently eyeing the AM-140, AM-270, as well as a few B&Ks. Tough choice. My budget is like $120-130 I guess.

[Lanman]

I'm sure there are others here who can answer this better than I can.  I haven't been involved in that part of the business in a very long time.  That was like 25+ years ago for me and I'm sure some things have changed since then.  But...  as a general practice, you want to keep all your through hole components on one side of the board.  SMTs on the backside are generally not a big issue.  There are factors that can effect the decision one way or the other.  Manufacturing cost is a big one, operating environment & heat dissipation, electrical requirements such as stray capacitance, cross talk & shielding considerations... it all comes into play.  KISS PCB design equals, lower manufacturing costs and easier/cheaper to troubleshoot and maintain. 

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away... I was a product engineer on the HP 5328B.  More than once I had to make revision changes on the unit and, understandably so, HP chose not to update the PCB layout.  Instead I had to run a wire across the the main board and once I added a hybrid IC to the back side.  At the time, it felt sooo wrong to do so but considering the 5328B was at the end of it's life cycle it was the right thing to do at the time.  I don't remember working on board layouts with components on the back side unless they were SMT.  Of course things might be a little different these days.

Dave.             

In regards to your meter, I'm still confused why they decided to cram all of the major stuff onto the front of the PCB instead of putting some of the stuff on the back to alleviate crowding...but anyway...

[FenderBender]

I understand that much. It just seemed funny to me to put all of the big thru-hole components on the side of the rotary selector dial and the LCD where there is already very little space to work with. But I'm not really qualified to speak on this matter. I'm just Amprobe/Meterman had a reason for the design...

[Zero999]

I don't own a Fluke and never will unless I get one for free.

Why not? I wouldn't pay retail prices for them, but that doesn't mean I don't want them at any price > $0. $10 would be quite satisfactory. As would $100 for a high-end one. I tend to buy used equipment for that reason.

It depends on how cheap you mean?

If it's around 60% of the retail price and definitely genuine yes but only to sell again to turn a profit. Between 60% and 80% I may consider it but would make the decision based on features more than whether it's Fluke or not.

Too cheap and I'd suspect it's a fake.

[FenderBender]

I decided to go with the Amprobe AM-270 after a heated argument...with myself...about which meter to get.

General feature list: True RMS, VDC, VAC, mV, Resistance, Capacitance, uA, mA, 10A, Frequency, Diode, Continuity, Temperature, Optional PC Interface, Relative, Crest, Min/Max, Digital Bar Graph, Backlight, 4 1/2 digits.

It's supposedly an HVAC/Industrial DMM, as in...it's not supposed to be for electronics use. However, it has all of the functions of a electronics meter and it's rated precision is much better than my current AM-220 which  is decent, but this one should be even more accurate.

I kind of liked the idea of an "Industrial" meter because I'd would kind of assume internal construction would be pretty beefy. Pretty good safety ratings on it and the fuses are both labeled as HBC fuses...Probably won't have it until the end of the week, but I'll take some pictures when I get it. Also bought some Fluke probes because it cleared the gift card I was using down to $0.06. Didn't really need them...I'll show pictures of them too. They were like $18. =P

[FenderBender]

Looks a lot like the AM-140 on the previous page.

[Lanman]

Very nice.

Dave

[FenderBender]

Just got the AM-270. That was very fast freight!

Popped it open.

Lanman, the internals appear to be identical to the AM-140 that you posted on page one. Everything from the input protection to the LCD to the fuses. So that makes me assume that any differences that might be present are software/firmware.

Overall, very satisfied. The build is very good internally for the price. Routed isolation, blast shields. Everythings heatshrinked up nicely. Good quality components all around. Nothing sloppy looking. Looks great and feels great in the hand. Probes are really nice and flexible and comfortable. Haven't tested accuracy, nor can I at all...I don't have the equipment, but I'll assume that Amprobe wasn't lying...

I recommend it.

[SgtRock]

Dear FenderBender:

--I looked over the specs of all the Amprobe DMMs. They all seemed to have plenty of features, and fair accuracy specs. With a one year factory warranty, and considering the price, they all seem like a fair deal to me. Just be sure you know you have enough meter to keep you safe in any given application.

--To get a true idea of the value of these meters, check eBay in ten years.

"Three weeks in the lab will save you a day in the library every time" Stanley Williams, HP Labs

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[FenderBender]

I think they are really exceptional values. Too bad they don't make other stuff like scopes etc.

There's a few things that I don't like so much about the meter, though non of them are deal breeakers.

Range switch takes quite a bit of effort to turn, but it's good and tactile. The stand is flimsy. Actually kind of a funny design. You can remove the stand or belt clip if you want via screw. Speaking of screws, they are all self-tappers. 6 of them! 4 are physically holding them together. 2 hold down the battery compartment. Those 2 have to be removed to gain access to the other screws to take it apart. However, this makes for a very sturdy build. Better than my 2 screw AM-220.

By the way, an AM-270 and AM-220 look rather beautiful next to eachother on the bench. =D

Maybe I'll do a  youtube review on it. You guys can hear my cute high school voice.

[RyanS]

AM-140A are $500 in Australia.  Wha...What?!

http://www.oritech.com.au/productDetail.aspx?productID=27787

$169 in the US.... 

[jwrtiger]

I bought an Amprobe AM-140-A a couple of weeks ago and made several review videos and one includes a minimal tear-down.

https://www.youtube.com/user/jwrelectro?feature=watch

John