Apparently you can just buy sodium 18650s now?

[Whales]

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/GEB-Hot-Sell-18650-Sodium-Ion_1600969337309.html

No datasheet listed, only some charging voltage specs :|

Surely it's a scam and they're standard Li-ion or LiFe cells?  Or is this now a thing?

I don't think this is a reliable test to determine cell chemistry:

[tszaboo]

Anyone tried these? Anyone have seen for example UN 38.1 reports? Well, I mean the equivalent for it because it's not lithium.

[SiliconWizard]

No you can't.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/sodium-ion-battery-evaluation

[audiotubes]

You have to take these sodium battery claims with a grain of salt 

[thm_w]

No you can't.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/sodium-ion-battery-evaluation

That is just speculation, no actual proof that these are fake.

[tszaboo]

No you can't.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/sodium-ion-battery-evaluation

That is just speculation, no actual proof that these are fake.

That's what I think as well. They can totally be fake, but we know that there are companies making these, and that it should be cheaper than Lithium per Wh.

[tom66]

The discharge curve looks quite dissimilar from lithium ion and the peak charging voltage does not line up with LFP.  Whilst I would like to believe they are fake, it seems believable enough that they could be sodium ion, at least from some kind of limited-run or early prototype release.

[KE5FX]

1. Order some samples from a Chinese company with "Fire" in the brand name
2. Wait for samples to catch fire, as promised
3. Use spectrometer to determine whether you have a lithium fire or a sodium fire

[SiliconWizard]

1. Order some samples from a Chinese company with "Fire" in the brand name
2. Wait for samples to catch fire, as promised
3. Use spectrometer to determine whether you have a lithium fire or a sodium fire

 

[SiliconWizard]

Or a variant:
1. Order some random shit from Aliexpress.
2. Assume it's genuine and matches the advertised specs.
3. Make a YT video about it, looking midly entertaining but with no reasonable evidence of anything. Make stuff explod if possible, that's always a plus.
4. Profit.

[Whales]

  We should send one to Les' Lab and his Pi Spectrometer

[tszaboo]

The discharge curve looks quite dissimilar from lithium ion and the peak charging voltage does not line up with LFP.  Whilst I would like to believe they are fake, it seems believable enough that they could be sodium ion, at least from some kind of limited-run or early prototype release.

That's what I think as well. The issue I have is that they are not from the manufacturer, and based on the images shared, they are not labeled enough to deduce who is actually making them.
I also don't see a reason, why companies with 10+ years profile in Alibaba would want to sell 10 batteries for 20 EUR, that are fake. But then again, we saw fake milk powder sold by that country.
I've spent the last month safety testing LTO batteries. They come from an small obscure Chinese supplier, and these things can handle quite a bit of abuse. I would love to put my hand on some real Sodium batteries, and test them. If these are really safer than regular lithium.

[alexwhittemore]

Perhaps they're factory rejects from EV manufacture? Some people in the comments here claim they've bought some as well. Of course they could be fake, but yeah, there wouldn't be much sense to faking it unless they're MORE expensive.

[Fryguy]

If they really make these batteries now , i'm absolutely sure they will be much cheaper to make - which doesn't mean we will pay less for them wherever we buy them . . . 

Lithium is kind of hard to get out of the earth - salt on the other hand is lying around everywhere and 70% of the planets surface is now batteryfluid !   

[SiliconWizard]

One benefit of hard to extract resources is that it drastically reduces our possibilities of depleting them.