Author Topic: Apple locking down camera replacements  (Read 3785 times)

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Online amykTopic starter

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Apple locking down camera replacements
« on: November 01, 2020, 06:26:57 am »
The war continues... https://www.ifixit.com/News/45921/is-this-the-end-of-the-repairable-iphone

Not surprising, but the bastards are trying to be more subtle about it now, so that they can basically brainwash people into thinking that only Apple can make a fully functional repair :--
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2020, 11:13:38 am »
It's not that, there's no marketing campaign accompanying it, which would be the case if the 'brainwashing' hypothesis held. It wasn't announced, it was just slipped out and someone noticed it in the field. It's no secret that Apple are rabidly anti 'right to repair', it's probably their worst quality. But so are many other manufacturers, it's just that the average mouthy tech blogger doesn't have a John Deere tractor so we don't hear about it. At least Apple, unlike John Deere, don't try to claim ownership of your own data and sell it back to you.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline tom66

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2020, 11:53:44 am »
My guess is this isn't so much as deliberate but some of the 'bokeh' and zoom functions (where multiple sensors are 'fused' together) require calibration data that is stored on the phone.  If the SN# of the calibration data doesn't match the camera app just gets confused. 

I work for an imaging company and the sensors on our devices are closely calibrated to the camera in the factory. That calibration data (non-uniformity correction, hot/cold pixels etc) is stored in the camera's flash memory and read out on boot up. While we don't check serial numbers match, if you put the wrong sensor on the wrong motherboard then you will get a horrible, uncorrected image. 

There is a simple fix to this problem that Apple should implement.  If a phone does not have camera calibration data for SN #xxx then it should download it from the mothership. These cameras will all be from recycled phones so there is no excuse to not have that data available.  Right to Repair should require companies like Apple to make cost-effective repairs of these devices possible, and to sell the replacement parts, WITH the necessary calibration data.

I also suspect Apple is in a bind with things like Touch and Face ID.  The security of these systems (payment processing up to £10,000,  unlock and authorise remote starts of cars, etc.)  is such that the devices must be absolutely certain that they have not been tampered with.  That is why iDevices ask for a passcode on reboot, in case the touch sensor has been modified in the meantime with a MITM attack for instance.  If you let people change these parts they could be modified parts that could e.g. store fingerprint data rather than passing it transparently to the crypto processor on the main board.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 11:55:52 am by tom66 »
 
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Offline ebclr

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2020, 06:21:01 pm »
Until the idiots buy this phone, At some point even cases will stop the phone the work, The simple solution refuse to buy
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2020, 06:34:17 pm »
Until the idiots buy this phone, At some point even cases will stop the phone the work, The simple solution refuse to buy

Erm, yes. No. Maybe. Sunday? Custard pies? The count of Montecristo? Ishmael, yes that's it, Ishmael! :-//  :)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2020, 10:41:08 pm »
parts that could e.g. store fingerprint data rather than passing it

Surely the comms between the fingerprint sensor and CPU are already encrypted ... with a random nonce or other method to defeat replay attacks ...

More likely the reason you can't just replace such a sensor is that each one has a different key. But like you said, this could be retrieved online (if Apple cared about the right to repair).
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2020, 11:09:25 pm »
My guess is this isn't so much as deliberate but some of the 'bokeh' and zoom functions (where multiple sensors are 'fused' together) require calibration data that is stored on the phone.  If the SN# of the calibration data doesn't match the camera app just gets confused. 

I work for an imaging company and the sensors on our devices are closely calibrated to the camera in the factory. That calibration data (non-uniformity correction, hot/cold pixels etc) is stored in the camera's flash memory and read out on boot up. While we don't check serial numbers match, if you put the wrong sensor on the wrong motherboard then you will get a horrible, uncorrected image. 

There is a simple fix to this problem that Apple should implement.  If a phone does not have camera calibration data for SN #xxx then it should download it from the mothership. These cameras will all be from recycled phones so there is no excuse to not have that data available.  Right to Repair should require companies like Apple to make cost-effective repairs of these devices possible, and to sell the replacement parts, WITH the necessary calibration data.

I also suspect Apple is in a bind with things like Touch and Face ID.  The security of these systems (payment processing up to £10,000,  unlock and authorise remote starts of cars, etc.)  is such that the devices must be absolutely certain that they have not been tampered with.  That is why iDevices ask for a passcode on reboot, in case the touch sensor has been modified in the meantime with a MITM attack for instance.  If you let people change these parts they could be modified parts that could e.g. store fingerprint data rather than passing it transparently to the crypto processor on the main board.
The anti-Apple crowd will never accept as mundane an explanation as "technical necessity" when there are consumer-hostile conspiracies to be believed instead…  |O
 

Online amykTopic starter

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2020, 11:19:36 pm »
My guess is this isn't so much as deliberate but some of the 'bokeh' and zoom functions (where multiple sensors are 'fused' together) require calibration data that is stored on the phone.  If the SN# of the calibration data doesn't match the camera app just gets confused. 

I work for an imaging company and the sensors on our devices are closely calibrated to the camera in the factory. That calibration data (non-uniformity correction, hot/cold pixels etc) is stored in the camera's flash memory and read out on boot up. While we don't check serial numbers match, if you put the wrong sensor on the wrong motherboard then you will get a horrible, uncorrected image. 
Image quality variance is different from subtle random freezes.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2020, 07:05:39 am »
Uhhhh... what? No, individual image sensors have individual pixel variation.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 07:33:26 am »
At the end of the day, who really cares? How many times have you had to replace the camera on your phone? I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if a faulty camera caused the phone not to boot or something ridiculous like that.

If an internal component fails that isn't "consumable" like the battery or LCD, send it back the manufacturer. I had the 4G radio fail on my Samsung after a few years of use and they swapped out the board, no questions asked, for free.
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 07:42:32 am »
Until the idiots buy this phone, At some point even cases will stop the phone the work, The simple solution refuse to buy

I think it is not random if the word "i"diot start with the letter i.
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Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2020, 07:51:12 am »
There is a simple fix to this problem that Apple should implement.  If a phone does not have camera calibration data for SN #xxx then it should download it from the mothership. These cameras will all be from recycled phones so there is no excuse to not have that data available.
[...]
Well yes of course there is. "To guarantee the best possible user experience only Authorized Apple Service Providers with Apple Certified Macintosh Technicians are able to calibrate the camera to provide the amazing image quality you are used to".
They already did this for the screens and their fancy True Tone.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 04:51:05 pm »
At the end of the day, who really cares? How many times have you had to replace the camera on your phone? I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if a faulty camera caused the phone not to boot or something ridiculous like that.

The iSight camera on my 2015 iPhone 6S failed with an unstable, constantly wobbling image.  Unfortunately, while Apple had a recall out for this being a known failure, the recall scheme ended a year after the fault developed on my phone.  I researched swapping it, but with other problems on the phone (defective microphone for Siri/background noise cancellation, and a worn battery) I decided it was not worthwhile changing all of those parts on an old phone.  I keep it as a spare, though.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2020, 06:42:59 pm »
At the end of the day, who really cares? How many times have you had to replace the camera on your phone? I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if a faulty camera caused the phone not to boot or something ridiculous like that.

The iSight camera on my 2015 iPhone 6S failed with an unstable, constantly wobbling image.  Unfortunately, while Apple had a recall out for this being a known failure, the recall scheme ended a year after the fault developed on my phone.  I researched swapping it, but with other problems on the phone (defective microphone for Siri/background noise cancellation, and a worn battery) I decided it was not worthwhile changing all of those parts on an old phone.  I keep it as a spare, though.

Oh, I don't doubt it. I have my thoughts on Apple's build "quality", but that's another issue. A faulty/swapped camera shouldn't stop the phone from working. If it just impacts the camera part, then *shrug*, send it back to the manufacturer for a replacement (paid or warranty job). If you choose to buy Apple products, well... that's on you. ;-)
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2020, 09:51:49 pm »
What I hate is the fact that the sheeple will continue to flock over the Apple no matter what insane crap they pull off.  They could not care less about the environment or repairability.  "Oh I'll just buy another one if it breaks" after spending over a grand on a phone.  :palm:  Also I don't get why they are already releasing a new phone, didn't the 11 like just come out less than a year ago? 

The entire phone ecosystem, android included, is a huge mess though.  They are basically designed to be thrown out after only 5 years.  In the case of Android, they stop issuing security updates after a short while.  Even if you get regular updates, for whatever reason they chose to make it so security updates come from the vendor instead of from the play store, so the vendor will usually stop issuing them after a short while.   It's a huge mess.

My phone got hacked a while back and that's when I found out I have not been getting security updates for like 2 years.  I assumed that as long as I'm getting updates through the play store that those are fixing security issues too.
 
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2020, 10:25:37 pm »
I have an iPhone because I got sick and tired of constant software bugs with Android devices.

My "new" (2020 generation) iPhone SE cost me fairly little second hand as flagship phones go, but the software is stable, Siri works well, battery life is excellent (2+ days with my usage profile.)  Maybe I can be tempted away from the walled Apple garden, but I don't want much from a phone.  I don't care that it's customisable,  I'm past that,  it needs to work, be fast, and be easy to use.  Repairability of most flagship phones is similar now (they all have glued screens, glued batteries, locked software) so I don't see how that makes that much difference.  I'm guaranteed security/software updates for at least 6 years (my older iPhone was still getting security updates.)  Also, I trust Apple far more with my privacy than Google, as Apple do actually respect it, by design.

Sure, Apple is shit in a lot of ways, but it's not just sheeple buying them.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2020, 10:59:59 pm »

I long for the old days where a phone was just a phone...  I don't like using small displays so I rarely use any capabilities other than texting.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2020, 11:05:57 pm »
I have an iPhone because I got sick and tired of constant software bugs with Android devices.

My "new" (2020 generation) iPhone SE cost me fairly little second hand as flagship phones go, but the software is stable, Siri works well, battery life is excellent (2+ days with my usage profile.)  Maybe I can be tempted away from the walled Apple garden, but I don't want much from a phone.  I don't care that it's customisable,  I'm past that,  it needs to work, be fast, and be easy to use.  Repairability of most flagship phones is similar now (they all have glued screens, glued batteries, locked software) so I don't see how that makes that much difference.  I'm guaranteed security/software updates for at least 6 years (my older iPhone was still getting security updates.)  Also, I trust Apple far more with my privacy than Google, as Apple do actually respect it, by design.

Sure, Apple is shit in a lot of ways, but it's not just sheeple buying them.

Exactly this.

Also if you aggregate the sale price of a £1000 unit, which is usually the price point I buy at you have to consider the total cost of ownership. This is 23 GBP a month (fucking bargain!) for the handset even if you replace it every 24 months when the AppleCare runs out. And you mitigate all risks other than it getting stolen which is probably covered by your household insurance unless you're an idiot.

What I can't understand is why people whine about the up front cost of a device rather than the utility versus total cost of ownership tradeoff.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2020, 11:08:54 pm »
I have an iPhone because I got sick and tired of constant software bugs with Android devices.

My "new" (2020 generation) iPhone SE cost me fairly little second hand as flagship phones go, but the software is stable, Siri works well, battery life is excellent (2+ days with my usage profile.)  Maybe I can be tempted away from the walled Apple garden, but I don't want much from a phone.  I don't care that it's customisable,  I'm past that,  it needs to work, be fast, and be easy to use.  Repairability of most flagship phones is similar now (they all have glued screens, glued batteries, locked software) so I don't see how that makes that much difference.  I'm guaranteed security/software updates for at least 6 years (my older iPhone was still getting security updates.)  Also, I trust Apple far more with my privacy than Google, as Apple do actually respect it, by design.

Sure, Apple is shit in a lot of ways, but it's not just sheeple buying them.
Frankly, I don’t even believe this mythical “sheeple” exists. Real people choose products for real reasons. What puzzles me is why people who have different priorities can’t accept that everyone’s priorities aren’t the same as theirs, and dismiss as brainwashed “sheeple” people who actually made the decision because of sound reasons (just reasons the dismissers don’t understand or particularly care about).


What I hate is the fact that the sheeple will continue to flock over the Apple no matter what insane crap they pull off.  They could not care less about the environment or repairability.  "Oh I'll just buy another one if it breaks" after spending over a grand on a phone.  :palm:  Also I don't get why they are already releasing a new phone, didn't the 11 like just come out less than a year ago? 
See above about the ignorant “sheeple” comment.

Apple cares more about the environment than any other major electronics manufacturer. No others do nearly as much in that regard. Is there more to do? Always. But choosing another brand for this reason is completely backward.

No, the iPhone 11 was released in September of 2019, right on the usual annual schedule.

Besides, why do you care? It’s not as though most iPhone 11 owners are gonna run and upgrade, and their upgrading wouldn’t affect you anyway. Most people keep their phones several years, something Apple encourages through very long OS support cycles on iPhones. The 6S I only just replaced with the new SE (because of needing multiple repairs sooner than I could get parts, thanks corona...) originally shipped with iOS 9, and still runs the current iOS 14, and with perfectly usable performance, not particularly slow even compared to the new SE. That’s 5 OS upgrades excluding its original OS! No Android phone has ever gotten 5 years of updates.


What I can't understand is why people whine about the up front cost of a device rather than the utility versus total cost of ownership tradeoff.
Right? And what I understand even less is people who whine about how other people choose to spend their own money, like our friend Red Squirrel above.



I long for the old days where a phone was just a phone...  I don't like using small displays so I rarely use any capabilities other than texting.

Then buy a simple phone instead of a smartphone. They still exist. Or use a low end smartphone and ignore most of what it can do. It’s not as though other people’s smartphones affect what you do with your phone.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 11:11:15 pm by tooki »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2020, 11:14:00 pm »
Yeah on the iPhone 11 thing, I have an XR I bought at the end of 2018. I've got until December before AppleCare runs out. I'll probably buy a 12 then and probably on Amazon :-//. I don't really care about yearly upgrades, just when my risks are no longer mitigated.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2020, 11:50:15 pm »
Did not realize it had already been a year since the 11, it seems it was not that long ago.  But either way if Apple really cared about the environment they would stop doing on purpose to make it hard to repair them, and they would stop changing connectors and doing on purpose to force people to buy new chargers/accessories.   When a company says they care about the environment it's all smoke in mirrors.  To believe them you need to look at their actions.   Purposely adding code in devices to not accept replacement parts is not caring for the environment.

Android is not perfect either though, honestly all phones are crap in this regard, but Apple seems to go the extra mile to make extra sure you're not fixing anything.   Android could be made better if they changed the way updates work.  All updates, including security and OS updates, should just come through the play store. It makes no sense to separate it and rely on the manufacturer.
 
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Offline ve7xen

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2020, 01:21:35 am »
Frankly, I don’t even believe this mythical “sheeple” exists. Real people choose products for real reasons. What puzzles me is why people who have different priorities can’t accept that everyone’s priorities aren’t the same as theirs, and dismiss as brainwashed “sheeple” people who actually made the decision because of sound reasons (just reasons the dismissers don’t understand or particularly care about).

It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation. Individuals make rational decisions for their situation, but the negative impacts of Apple's anti-competitive behaviour aren't painful or visible enough to enough individuals to have an effect on their aggregate behaviour, which encourages more anti-competitiveness. It's not just Apple, this vertical tying is happening across our society, but Apple is one of the most egregious.
73 de VE7XEN
He/Him
 
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Online amykTopic starter

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2020, 04:42:08 am »
Uhhhh... what? No, individual image sensors have individual pixel variation.
...and just how can that result in anything more than bad image quality? No, Apple deliberately decided to psychologically mess with its users by detecting "non-original" parts and then purposely making it "not quite work". Imagine if Apple made their computer's OS detect a non-Apple keyboard or mouse was connected, and then caused it to randomly drop or repeat keys and clicks or movements, spreading FUD about non-Apple components. This sort of deception should be illegal.
 

Offline edy

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2020, 05:18:41 am »
I just watched this video of a guy who bought 2 brand new identical iPhone 12 and swapped a bunch of parts to see what would happen. Then he swapped everything back. Is this Apple just trying to kill the 3rd party repair business or is their tech so much more advanced it needs parts that must be matched at the factory? I get trying to stop knock-off batteries but even identical brand new phones won't allow swaps without some reprogramming bull seems to make me think it's Apple killing 3rd party repair so they can dictate the terms of product use from beginning to end of lifecycle:

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Offline Halcyon

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Re: Apple locking down camera replacements
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2020, 05:42:38 am »
I have an iPhone because I got sick and tired of constant software bugs with Android devices.

My "new" (2020 generation) iPhone SE cost me fairly little second hand as flagship phones go, but the software is stable, Siri works well, battery life is excellent (2+ days with my usage profile.)  Maybe I can be tempted away from the walled Apple garden, but I don't want much from a phone.  I don't care that it's customisable,  I'm past that

You haven't used a modern Android in quite a while have you? ;-)

In all seriousness, what you describe is basically the target market Apple is going for (that and those who like pretty packaging). If you just want a phone without the latest bells and whistles, that does a reasonable job of being a phone, then Apple devices are perfect. The moment you want to do something a little different or start customising things, that's when you start looking at alternatives.
 
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