crApple's disposable products

[Uncle Vernon]

Sorry "Uncle Vernon", but your pedantic nature and multi-quoted foolishness just causes my eyes to see this:

It's a really sad thing that you cannot BEAR to be wrong, and quite an unattractive character flaw.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh look tag team evangelism! Why think when you can have some numbskull force his ideas and beliefs upon youwhether it's welcome or not. Sooner you pair of primates work out that, some of us are capable of drawing our own conclusions, and that we don't need your various brands of evangelism thrust upon us, then the better off you will be!
Hold what ever nub-job ideas you want, seven day creationism, white computers are good for self esteem.
Hell your even free to discuss your crackpot theories.
But try and force your views as the only ones to be had, and you will continue to be due, a metric shitload of criticism and criticism!

[jerry507]

More angry and hollow words

You don't even bother to actually say anything technical or on topic. Never mind that you went offtopic and got more angry faster than anyone else on this thread. Why bother at all?

[T4P]

More angry and hollow words

You don't even bother to actually say anything technical or on topic. Never mind that you went offtopic and got more angry faster than anyone else on this thread. Why bother at all?

You started your evangelism and naturally everything went off course, dick 

[WorldPowerLabs]

Greetings EEVBees:

--Please, please, folks, is it really necessary to get so hateful and personal in a discussion where there are two sides both of which comprise millions of people. They cannot all be D*ckheads, and non of them needs to STFU. It has been my experience that people who get extremely hostile at the drop of a hat, are the first ones to run and tattle to the moderator, if anyone says anything they do not like. We have even seen someone get so angry that they accused their opponent of hijacking his own thread.  And on another occasion a person stated that the person he was arguing with had a deficient [intelect]. So sometimes these guys can provide (unintentional) humor, but mostly they just drag down the tone of this respected forum.

--I have even seen people who insult the nationality of individuals they disagree with. Some people seem to use fighting words and profanity, instead of cogent argument. I really enjoy a vigorous debate in this forum, but when people start getting hateful and personal, I can only conclude that they feel they are loosing the argument.

"All I wants of you, Cap'n Simmons, is plain seevility, and that of the commonest goddamndest kind!"
Zeph W. Pease

Best Regards
Clear Ether

Well said.  There is no "winning" this debate so long as folks hold different opinions.  Personally, I prefer PCs because I can build a machine any way I want from the huge variety of hardware that's readily available.  I also like to have multiple sources of repair parts (need a motherboard?  there are at least 6 good manufacturers... etc.)  However, some folks like to fire up a computer and never think about how it works.  Neither side is right -- just different.

Now, I do take issue with Apple's apparent attitude that consumer electronics should be disposable.  If you throw away a device, you can't consider only the impact of the device itself going into the waste (or recycling) stream.  You have to consider the resources and energy that were used to make the device, too.

I am not an environmentalist per-se, but I dislike wasting resources needlessly.  (My newest vehicle is 13 years old, and my older one is 15...  I tend to keep things for a while, and I don't buy into the "trade-up" mentality so long as something serves my purpose and doesn't cost much money to keep.  I also try to buy used whenever I can).

[T4P]

WorldPowerLabs, i salute you.
I really hate to throw out things but when it's thanks to the manufacturer that it's now beyond repair i have to throw it out

... I didn't have a use for my Alpine 4x60W amp so i lent it to my father's friend, if it's shot i can easily repair it ... it's so simple inside
Yet to me it's my kingpin for any sort of audio ... at full power it only has 0.03% THD+Noise

[joelby]

Why throw things out when you can recycle them? At least in Australia, Apple will collect and recycle your old computer (from any manufacturer) if you buy a new computer. You can also post in old Apple phones and iPods for free, or return an old iPod to a store for a 10% discount on a new one.

All of the major PC manufacturers have a recycling program of some sort.

If you mean personal recycling (e.g. fitting a new motherboard when an old one fails or becomes obsolete), spare/refurbished logic boards and other parts for most popular laptops eventually seem to filter through to eBay and other similar outlets, and someone will eventually write 'how to' guides for replacing things without damaging them.

[T4P]

Why throw things out when you can recycle them? At least in Australia, Apple will collect and recycle your old computer (from any manufacturer) if you buy a new computer. You can also post in old Apple phones and iPods for free, or return an old iPod to a store for a 10% discount on a new one.

All of the major PC manufacturers have a recycling program of some sort.

If you mean personal recycling (e.g. fitting a new motherboard when an old one fails or becomes obsolete), spare/refurbished logic boards and other parts for most popular laptops eventually seem to filter through to eBay and other similar outlets, and someone will eventually write 'how to' guides for replacing things without damaging them.

What can you recycle in a ultra dense laptop? That laptop had a oddly high failure rate and there it did ... right after warranty the southbridge failed
Yes the northbridge is easily available but the southbridge ? No. It's the NF430 whatever southbridge

[joelby]

What can you recycle in a ultra dense laptop?

It depends what you mean by 'recycling'. If you mean recovering all of the raw materials, then it doesn't really matter how dense the construction is. It's silly to throw any electronics into landfill these days, unless e-waste collection in your region doesn't exist or is very expensive.

[T4P]

What can you recycle in a ultra dense laptop?

It depends what you mean by 'recycling'. If you mean recovering all of the raw materials, then it doesn't really matter how dense the construction is. It's silly to throw any electronics into landfill these days, unless e-waste collection in your region doesn't exist or is very expensive.

Ha. Recycling here is like throwing into the bin ... people burn the recycling bins the town council places there
E-waste does not exist here, mainly because nobody would be bothered to (I'll give you a figure, 95% of people here use crApple's disposable products)

[joelby]

Ha. Recycling here is like throwing into the bin ... people burn the recycling bins the town council places there
E-waste does not exist here, mainly because nobody would be bothered to (I'll give you a figure, 95% of people here use crApple's disposable products)

Well, if you don't want to be apathetic, there's a company that will pick equipment up and recycle it for you, free of charge: http://www.apple.com/sg/recycling/computer/ http://www.reverselogistic.com/apple.consumer/

[T4P]

Ha. Recycling here is like throwing into the bin ... people burn the recycling bins the town council places there
E-waste does not exist here, mainly because nobody would be bothered to (I'll give you a figure, 95% of people here use crApple's disposable products)

Well, if you don't want to be apathetic, there's a company that will pick equipment up and recycle it for you, free of charge: http://www.apple.com/sg/recycling/computer/ http://www.reverselogistic.com/apple.consumer/

No point really, it just wastes my time

Let me put a end to this thread, somebody lock it please

[A Hellene]

Really, what exactly is the "recycle plan" that Apple (or any "Apple") states that has? Shipping the totally useless rubbish to the neighbor's yard for "further processing" according to the stated promises?

According to the documentary I posted at the previous page, e-waste is shipped in huge containers to Third World countries (the "Developing countries" according to the official euphemism, for those who refuse to read between the lines and see beyond the State and corporate doublespeak) for the locals to scrap the metals, since the minimum wages in the "Developed countries" are already too high for such a dull, unhealthy and risky work...

I am afraid that Dave, above, has got it right...


-George

[T4P]

Really, what exactly is the "recycle plan" that Apple (or any "Apple") states that has? Shipping the totally useless rubbish to the neighbor's yard for "further processing" according to the stated promises?

According to the documentary I posted at the previous page, e-waste is shipped in huge containers to Third World countries (the "Developing countries" according to the official euphemism, for those who refuse to read between the lines and see beyond the State and corporate doublespeak) for the locals to scrap the metals, since the minimum wages in the "Developed countries" are already too high for such a dull, unhealthy and risky work...

I am afraid that Dave, above, has got it right...


-George

Just to support what George has said

To joelby
In short, this "recycling" bullshit is wasting the earth even further,
1) Think of the people processing all these, it ain't very nice to them all the smoke and shit
2) You think they process it at a recycling plant? When's the last time you saw one?
3) Oh, how many tonnes of carbon has been "wasted" on transporting all these "recycled" stuff?
4) As much as i do not want to, i blame RoHS and greedy Coporations for planned obsolescence, when's the last time i threw out something that was soldered with leaded solder? Never.
5) Speaking of lead solder, electronics only has about 0.5-0.6% of the lead from earth, military shells and shit on the other hand 50-60%
WOW, 50-60% of lead in the air ... 

[amyk]

What can you recycle in a ultra dense laptop? That laptop had a oddly high failure rate and there it did ... right after warranty the southbridge failed
Yes the northbridge is easily available but the southbridge ? No. It's the NF430 whatever southbridge

Mobile phones have even denser construction and the Chinese have no real problems stripping the parts off the PCB and selling them. A large percentage of them probably still work fine.

[timelessbeing]

A lot of people think recycling is some kind of magic reset button. Poof ... back to zero right? Despite all our good intentions, recycling is far from perfect. I volunteer at an organisation that repurposes (ideally) and ethically recycles old computers, and a lot of waste still ends up going to the dump. Fossil fuels have to be burned in order to transport and process the material. Sometimes, recycling uses more energy than producing virgin material. You can't take back the pollution and toxic materials that were produced to make a product. China gets most of its mineral coltan, which is used to manufacture electronic components, from Africa, where it is mined in horrible, exploitative ways. There are numerous social and environmental costs associated with disposable culture. Financial too. I am charged an eco fee every time I purchase, and dispose of a product. I have to pay taxes for my city to provide disposal services. Sure it's a fact of life right now, but Apple is speeding up the life cycle, and off-loading the costs onto you. Apple knows all the tricks so they don't have to pay taxes.

If computers were a subscription service, and the manufacturer absorbed the costs of obsolescence, you can bet they wouldn't be gluing batteries to cases.

[Mechatrommer]

throw everything into the sea. everything will melt down there. or at least leaving precious metal intact... "natural selection" of recycling programme. saving everybody and make new home to fishes.

[A Hellene]

Ah, they have already been doing that for the radioactive waste and they call it "ocean disposal" --you know: spent nuclear fuel (the rods), radioactive medical and industrial waste, etc.! The long term radioactive waste, like the depleted uranium with a half life of 4.5 billion years, they give it to the mercenaries to bury it in the Middle Eastern sand, in the Balkans (Yugoslavia), etc.

Please, Mecha, stop giving them ideas!


-George

[david77]

throw everything into the sea. everything will melt down there. or at least leaving precious metal intact... "natural selection" of recycling programme. saving everybody and make new home to fishes.

I'm sort of hoping you are joking. If not, this is the stupidest comment I've heard in a long time  .

Personally I also believe avoiding rubbish in the firt place is the best solution. If we have to throw things out eventually they should be recycled in an environmentaly friendly way so that precious raw materials get recovered. I'm not convinced that is what happens at the moment, though.
I own very few electronic things that were bought new, most of my stuff is second hand. When I buy something new I try to choose it so that there's a reasonable chance it'll last for many years. That has become much more difficult in the last years, so maybe I'm being a bit naive there  .
When it comes to PC's everything I have I've got for free or second hand for very little money, the only exception being hard drives. There are so many people who feel the need to upgrade their stuff every 1-2 years, there's really very little need to buy new hardware.

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--Recycling, Feh! Here in Orange County Florida, the County mandated a one cent tax on all plastic milk jugs. Now the environmentally minded consumers put the jugs in the special plastic recycling bins. The bins are then collected by the special recycling trucks, and taken to the recycling center. The plastic milk jugs are then seperated out of the stream and then transported to the landfill and discarded. This at least triples the cost of discarding a plastic milk jug. It is kind of like digging a hole and then filling it up again, or using fuel, to grow corn, to make alcohol, which must be transported in trucks, for it cannot be put in pipelines, and then added to gasoline in order to "save fuel". This kind of "recycling" may not be effecient, but it does provide government jobs, for people who in the end, will by and large vote for the party that sponsored the one cent fee in the first place.

--I would love to own an Apple product, even if you cannot take them "apaaaht" As a financial necessity most of my equipment is rescued, recycled, refurbished, or repaired. This sort of thing is easier for PC users who can work from a list of ingredients, as opposed to Apple users who prefer to work from a menu.

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."
Margaret Thatcher 1925 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[SeanB]

You do know that the DU that is sprayed around with such abandon is actually less radioactive than the ore it came from. Another use is in the aprons that you wear in a radiological suite, they are made from uranium, not lead, as it is denser and has a larger nucleus.

A funny thing about radioactive waste is that the one mine site in Oklo is actually the remains of a natural reactor complex, where dozens of reactors formed and ran for milennia, with all the waste staying close to the site of reaction, even though the rock is sandstones and permeated with water.

[saturation]

Just to drive the discussion back on topic, the issue of disposable electronics is a problem if you cannot reach the final "R" of waste management: recycle; unlike other waste its less likely to be repurposed or reused when its obsolete.

Some of the comments made about recycling as dumping it to Africa, India or China, is increasingly not practiced in developed countries because of the value in the trash, and the increasing cost of oil to ship out: ground electronics and mine the trash, called slag, for metals is more cost effective than mining them from the earth.  Its become fairly lucrative and sustainable, and one needn't worry about the current but past trend of reclaiming used electronic parts, then reselling them either as used or as counterfeit, new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_recycling#Processing_techniques

For iPads, iPhones or PCs as example, even if new models come up before the old ones lose all their functionality, so long as the user doesn't dump them, they can be taken for reuse in reuse programs, just as GoodWill in the USA takes used clothing, re-users take the electronics given to them free, which they resell for a profit at lower cost, making everyone happy. 

http://www.epa.gov/osw/conserve/materials/ecycling/donate.htm

[T4P]

I don't really want to argue but most of the iPhones you see around probably already has a cracked screen before the 2 years mark reaches

[saturation]

Cracked screens are very common in cellphones, so its one of the few things that are serviceable, and fairly easy, not just for iPhones.  Another common ailment is dropping it in water, and the right person can revitalize even that phone.

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-an-iPhone-3G-Screen

Because wet phones take some doing, its often exchanged for refurbished ones until the wet one can be dried out properly and rinsed.  Also, its only possible if its wet in fresh water, not salt.

http://dabbler.hubpages.com/hub/Apple-iPhone-Water-Damage

FWIW, after the above's abuse if true, its a testament to how well they can be built.

I don't really want to argue but most of the iPhones you see around probably already has a cracked screen before the 2 years mark reaches

[T4P]

Cracked screens are very common in cellphones, so its one of the few things that are serviceable, and fairly easy, not just for iPhones.  Another common ailment is dropping it in water, and the right person can revitalize even that phone.

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-an-iPhone-3G-Screen

Because wet phones take some doing, its often exchanged for refurbished ones until the wet one can be dried out properly and rinsed.  Also, its only possible if its wet in fresh water, not salt.

http://dabbler.hubpages.com/hub/Apple-iPhone-Water-Damage

FWIW, after the above's abuse if true, its a testament to how well they can be built.

I don't really want to argue but most of the iPhones you see around probably already has a cracked screen before the 2 years mark reaches

It's actually a testament to how badly built they are
Mind you don't forget where they are built ... FOXCONN !
Poor quality glass used
And yeah, it is already sealed it should have been waterproof, which means BAD sealing

[jerry507]

How do you know the quality of the glass is so poor?