General > General Technical Chat

Are we becoming old, cranky scrooges in these forums.

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KL27x:
There's tons of good data in YT, of course. But it's like having the Homeland Security's vault of metadata. It's not practical to sort/search data in video format.


--- Quote ---I could go on and on, but the facts are that the average tech youtuber gets very little, if any money, and has to put in years of work to get to that point.
--- End quote ---
Everyone knows that. People don't need a reward to share info. They do it because they want to. You can't do that on YT, though, because YT doesn't work that way. Because the contents of videos are not indexable/searchable very easily. But somehow our modern search engines will offer 100's of video hits, which are highly based on a title and key words and popularity/trends (and.. marketing bots are part of that), because... that's what is practical for a video. YT is a business. You could say this business is detrimental to the sharing of knowledge and beneficial to large marketers and media companies. And that it could have a larger effect on the entire internet.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: rsjsouza on May 26, 2020, 06:21:59 pm ---Sure, it may not be the best and most efficient way to deliver specific content
--- End quote ---
You cannot teach somebody complex technical subjects by feeding them video and audio only; it just does not work.  Every human learns in a slightly different way, and have a slightly different knowledge base, and need to dynamically adjust their focus to their personal needs.  This is why video and audio alone are not suitable for tutorials.  This is also why just sitting in college or university classes and only listening won't get you far: you need to delve into the material on your own, and get a somewhat intuitive grasp on it, so that you can apply the knowledge as a tool.  Being able to recite information but not apply it is useless. 

Experiments, tips and tricks, showing details and "traps for young players" that often is gained only via real world experience, and so on, are not tutorials.  They are much less information dense, and are structured much more like a story.  The high points are often easy to note, and their conveyed details easily integrated; but only if the surrounding story supports it.  The viewer/listener is a passive participant, "experiencing" the story; in the best case, like watching over the shoulder of a seasoned professional.  It can be a very important part of the whole machinery of learning, but it alone does not suffice.

It is sheer idiocy to believe videos and/or podcasts alone could suffice.  Humans do not work that way.  You can learn a lot of stuff that way, for example languages, but not everything; and especially not complex creative tasks or technical subjects.  Those require more fundamental changes in the human mind than mere passive observation can induce.

You can glorify quick-and-easy media as much as you like, but the simple fact is that if you base your technical learning on Youtube videos, it will be superficial and poor indeed.  And it is not because the videos are poor, it is because they are unsuitable for the task because of how human learning works.

If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, so I guess it is easy to think videos alone work, if they make you forget all the other work you've done to learn.

It is true that pure text and pictures is not as effective as text and pictures with an occasional story highlighting an important point, or explaining a crucial detail in another way.  Having those as videos with a much less dense information content, with a story-like structure, really REALLY works.  Most of you have also read old-style books, with interesting anecdotes or snippets sprinkled in, making the material much more approachable and sometimes even enjoyable; and those without, like reading an old phone book.  Or have wondered about a specific type of circuit, and have found an EEVblog video exploring it, and had the overall picture just "click" together.
Yet, while those videos and anecdotal text snippets and stories can be critical for learning results, they aren't the whole matter, only the highlights.

I'll try not to try and belabor this any further; probably shouldn't even post this...  If anyone is interested in exactly why I believe the above is true, feel free to delve into pedagogy and learning theory.

Syntax Error:

--- Quote from: eti on May 26, 2020, 05:57:01 pm ---You're right - we we BETTER OFF that way, as too much "information", too much choice boggles and tires the mind. People had marginally, but measurably more patience, more respect and self-control, more manners and exponentially less narcissism than today. I'll take the 90s over this ANY DAY.

--- End quote ---
As a programmer back in the pre mobile Spice World era, you know what I mean, Foyles Bookshop in London was my goto library of up to date programming text. I still have here on the shelf a Wrox Press HTML book, a 90s developer bible. The dialup internet, aka AOL, arrived, but we still needed our O'Reilly paperbacks and computer magazines as they were usefull. Now it's just an information avalanche. One we've created all by ourselves.

Alexa! So tell me what you want what you really-really want?

tkamiya:
Well....  things were bad 15 years ago when I was in automotive forums.  I carry a habit from those days.

When conversation turns illogical and uncivil, I just leave the thread.  This year is quite special in that Covid-19 virus has placed enormous stress on everyone.  That's probably the main course if it's suddenly happening.  There were always agitators who purposely try to start an argument.  I can usually see right through them.  Except for few occasions, I am enjoying relative calm and civility in THIS forum. 

Rick Law:

--- Quote from: eti on May 26, 2020, 05:52:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: engrguy42 on May 26, 2020, 04:40:00 pm ---Youtube is free. Complaining about it is bordering on insane. Youtube creators spend a ton of time producing stuff, and the vast majority of tech youtubers get little or nothing in return. Except for complaints and 357 variations of "oh, you should have done it THIS way". And people expecting you to be their private tutor for free. And give them all the code you write.

Absolutely insane. A lot of selfish, entitled people out there.

Instead, you should be thanking every single freakin' one of them for what they do, and hitting the like button so often it breaks your freakin' mouse. And subscribe to EVERYONE. Because that's the only way they get a few measly pennies in return for their many hours of work.

And if you really think their stuff sucks and you can do it better, then do it. Show the world how freakin' brilliant you are and how much better you are. Start your own channel, and learn what it's really like.

--- End quote ---

YouTube is free TO US, but they get paid for doing it (as the incessant, cheesy, crass begging for likes and subscriptions, etc, demonstrates) - they are duly rewarded for their (sometimes) hard work. TV is free in the UK, apart from a meagre fee for a TV licence - but TV is generally tens of orders of magnitude more well researched, shot, edited and narrated - and they have the benefit of DECADES of experience, on-hand experts and VAST archives of past material to go on.

--- End quote ---

No, YouTube is NOT free TO US.  The cost is hidden from us, that doesn't mean it is free.

According to The Verge, youtube annual sales is $15 billion[1].  It all came from advertisements and product prices are inflated cumulatively by $15 billion dollars that we the consumers paid to keep youtube around.

This is exactly like the tax the employer paid tax on each employee.  Take Social Security for example, the employee and the employer each pays half.  (Randomly picking $100...) It looks like you are paying only $100 while the other $100 came out of the employer's pocket.  But to the employer, the employer takes that $100 from the budget for your labor and give it to the SSA instead of giving it to you.  It matters not to the employer that you didn't get it directly -- It still is what it cost them for your labor.  You paid by getting $100 less what the employer actually paid for your labor.

They (government, SSA, Google) are counting on most people think it is free because it is hidden - you paid, and your payment is hidden from you.

Reference:
[1] Youtube revenue ("turn-over" for some of you) from The Verge:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/3/21121207/youtube-google-alphabet-earnings-revenue-first-time-reveal-q4-2019

EDITed: for typo only

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