Author Topic: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.  (Read 1269 times)

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Offline tom66

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Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« on: January 22, 2020, 10:26:50 am »
For the last 3 months I've been dealing with Arrow Electronics' screw-up.  Finally in the last week it is resolved.

I ordered approx GBP£200 of parts from Arrow and took advantage of 10% discount offer that they had on at the time.  They were competitive in price for many parts on my order.  Per their ordering process I selected DDP so that when the goods landed in the UK I'd not have to pay any duty/ couriers fees etc. So they charged me the duty up front and paid that to HMRC to keep everyone happy.

No other electronics distributor has managed to mess this up before, and I've made dozens of orders with Digi-Key, Mouser and a few other small American distributors.   But Arrow did.

The order arrives as duty due on collection/delivery, so I refuse delivery.  Contact Arrow, they apologise, send another order out.  Over the next week the four separate parcels - originating from the same warehouse, mind, individually arrive.  Two of them have demands for payment, so they get refused.  Eventually, DHL just delivers the parcel to the neighbour and sends me a duty invoice in the post a week later.  Fedex did the same.  (Mind, if I hadn't have selected DDP, I'd have paid almost £40 in courier fees alone for a single order...eek.)

So, I contact Arrow once more and try to get them to sort this out and they agree to cover the costs of their screwup, saying the order was manually changed from DDP due to a technical error of some kind (as of yet unspecified but they apparently have a whole department for dealing with this so it doesn't seem uncommon.) 

Arrow tell me that it's all sorted and that the couriers have agreed to bill Arrow for the costs.  But a month later I get a payment demand from Fedex and then from DHL.  Then DHL sends debt collectors after me.  Chase Arrow around and they get Fedex paid,  but DHL still outstanding.  DHL/Debt agency getting increasingly pushy so regrettably I decide to pay them myself and get Arrow to pay me back.  Finally sorted, about 3 months after the order.

Still no actual apology from anyone but CS reps or indication that the processes will be changed or improved.  CS reps are friendly & helpful, although slow to respond to any emails, and when you have increasingly threatening debt collection letters promising legal action, etc. it starts taking up the time that you'd rather be making/engineering things.

Now, I can't entirely blame Arrow - the couriers are at least somewhat to blame with their inability to tie invoices and waybills together - but this is really just a colossal admin f**kup that shouldn't happen in the first place.

So I'm probably not going to order from Arrow in the future, even though they do try to attract more engineers than big businesses with their new marketing campaigns. 

Moral of the story, as well, is don't let packages with outstanding duty get delivered to neighbours: but that's kind of hard when couriers have just left packages in my green bins before and marked them delivered.

/rant
 

Online magic

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 11:03:21 am »
Eventually, DHL just delivers the parcel to the neighbour and sends me a duty invoice in the post a week later.  Fedex did the same.
This is the actual :wtf:

I would demand to see my signature on the delivery form >:D

If a neighbor signed it, let him pay for it. I certainly wouldn't receive any paid package for somebody else without confirming that it's legitimate. What about inspection of the content too? And finally, if it's "payment on delivery", how do they consider it delivered if it hasn't been paid? None of that should happen, IMHO.
 
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Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 05:51:48 pm »
The one time I ordered from Arrow, the service was shockingly bad and I would never order again.

Quite how you can end up owing a debt to a company you don't have a contract with, I have no idea how that works legally. I would avoid any company like the plague that puts me in that position.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2020, 08:33:59 pm »
Still no actual apology from anyone but CS reps or indication that the processes will be changed or improved.  CS reps are friendly & helpful, although slow to respond to any emails, and when you have increasingly threatening debt collection letters promising legal action, etc. it starts taking up the time that you'd rather be making/engineering things.
That is why it is better to just pay and write it off as an expense. If you add it to all the money you likely piss away anyhow then it is peanuts.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2020, 10:37:34 pm »
That is why it is better to just pay and write it off as an expense. If you add it to all the money you likely piss away anyhow then it is peanuts.

That's ultimately what I did, Arrow were still trying to figure out how to pay DHL at the time so I told them I would pay and send them the bill.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 10:44:25 pm »
I ordered from Arrow several times when they were offering free shipping, otherwise their postage rates are not competitive. The only complaint I had with them was the amount of packaging waste, it was absurd! I ordered a handful of parts and received three different parcels, one of which was a huge box about 3' tall containing an IC tube with 5 8 pin ICs in one end and a long strip of foam. That was inside an equally long ESD bag which was along with an individual printout put inside yet another plastic bag.

The whole import duty thing has always seemed strange to me and it's something I'm really glad I don't have to deal with. There may be some threshold over which I'd have to pay some kind of import tax but I've never hit it on anything I've purchased from abroad. They just deliver international packages just the same as domestic stuff.
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2020, 11:15:26 pm »
I appreciate all the extra packaging from Arrow, nice strong reusable cardboard boxes and crumpled paper padding. I don’t throw any of it away!

They’ve become one of my favourite suppliers recently, stock control is a bit messed up but otherwise very happy with the service and prices.
 
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Online james_s

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 11:20:05 pm »
I do reuse it personally, some of it anyway, but I suspect the vast majority of it just ends up in the bin. Even I toss out boxes after a while if I don't end up using them. Even flattened they take up space.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 11:40:54 pm »


The whole import duty thing has always seemed strange to me and it's something I'm really glad I don't have to deal with. There may be some threshold over which I'd have to pay some kind of import tax but I've never hit it on anything I've purchased from abroad. They just deliver international packages just the same as domestic stuff.

    US customs isn't nearly as greedy as the customs services in the UK and most of the other European countries. Thank heavens that we in the US can usually get small packages from overseas without customs and without brokers (they should be called "Breakers") getting involved and charging astronomical fees.  I feel for those in Europe, Australia and Canada that have to put up with that shiit.
 
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Offline MasterT

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 12:48:07 am »
Only first shipment was free of charge for me, delivered to Canada. Than 23-25$ custom + delivery for each order ~$100.
I realized, that compare to mouser, that have local headquarter in Ontario and does all shipment free for >$100 CAD, I keep in mind 25% surcharge for arrow orders, and buy something that really have big difference in price. Last summer got small signal relays, pack
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/g5v25dc/omron  So, get shipment covered by lower price
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 12:56:06 am »
@james_s
There is HUGE difference in the threshold for charging import duties in US vs Canada , $800 vs $15.  Basically only the cheapest chinese import makes it through.
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Offline IanB

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 01:15:24 am »
The whole import duty thing has always seemed strange to me and it's something I'm really glad I don't have to deal with. There may be some threshold over which I'd have to pay some kind of import tax but I've never hit it on anything I've purchased from abroad. They just deliver international packages just the same as domestic stuff.

Generally speaking states with sales tax would want to collect tax from you for any goods purchased out of state. However, there are not good systems in place for them to collect this tax and so it mostly goes unpaid.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online james_s

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 02:50:13 am »
I don't think sales tax and import duty are the same thing. Sales tax is based on the price paid and is typically around 10%, normally collected by the seller at the time of purchase, it's unrelated to whether the goods are bought from within the USA or imported from elsewhere. Import duty seems to be based on some kind of calculated value and from what I've seen sounds like a far more substantial tax, I've never really looked into how it works.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 05:56:46 am »
I don't think sales tax and import duty are the same thing. Sales tax is based on the price paid and is typically around 10%, normally collected by the seller at the time of purchase, it's unrelated to whether the goods are bought from within the USA or imported from elsewhere. Import duty seems to be based on some kind of calculated value and from what I've seen sounds like a far more substantial tax, I've never really looked into how it works.

I understand about the difference between duty and tax, and indeed in the UK both may be charged. First the import duty is added to the value of the imported goods, and then Value Added Tax (VAT) is added to the combined total (VAT is essentially UK sales tax).

I'm just saying, however, that in the USA there may be a liability to pay state sales tax on goods imported from out of state, whether from another state or from overseas, aside from import duty. In California this is called Use Tax and is meant to be declared and paid on tax returns.

Import duty is levied by the Federal government and is of course administered separately. I agree with you on the convenience that packages enter the USA without being intercepted for duty as they tend to do in Europe.
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Offline plazma

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 05:48:30 pm »
I have made several orders from Arrow. Always used the free shipping campaign. No problems.

The best campaign was free shipping and a free Raspberry Pi for every order over 50€. I needed parts for over 200€ so I split it into four orders and got four free Raspberry Pi's :)
 
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Offline nigelwright7557

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2020, 06:03:23 pm »
I have looked at Arrow a few times but always opted for Farnell or RS instead who are reputable dealers.
Both deliver next day and RS is free p+p.
Farnell is free p+p over £20.
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Offline TopLoser

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 08:42:13 pm »
If you quote a GB VAT number when you place your Arrow order then you get your stuff without having to pay any of that nasty VAT.

Even if it's not yours.

Allegedly.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 08:56:20 pm »
Even if it's not yours.

Allegedly.
The issue is that IME later those transactions with VAT number get actually checked by tax agencies. Because of which some time later ARROW likely will be paying VAT instead of you. Dunno if they'll go after you together with law enforcement authorities though.
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2020, 09:06:16 pm »
Even if it's not yours.

Allegedly.
The issue is that IME later those transactions with VAT number get actually checked by tax agencies. Because of which some time later ARROW likely will be paying VAT instead of you. Dunno if they'll go after you together with law enforcement authorities though.

That’s much more likely with EU sales lists that have to be submitted for intra-EU sales. Both parties submit details of those transactions.

Arrow only pay what they collect, they don’t lose out if you mislead them by quoting somebody else’s number.

It’s difficult and time consuming for HMCE to chase such small amounts, doubtful if they will ever put the effort in. They have much bigger avoidance schemes to chase.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 09:13:10 pm by TopLoser »
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 09:09:42 pm »
Even if it's not yours.

Allegedly.
The issue is that IME later those transactions with VAT number get actually checked by tax agencies. Because of which some time later ARROW likely will be paying VAT instead of you. Dunno if they'll go after you together with law enforcement authorities though.

I only mention this because years ago I entered (accidentally) my valid company VAT number incorrectly on my Arrow account. I only recently noticed and corrected the error.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 09:19:16 pm »
That’s much more likely with EU sales lists that have to be submitted for intra-EU sales. Both parties submit details of those transactions.
When you enter VAT number, it is intra-EU sale. Parts get sold to you by their EU subsidiary and when parts cross the border, they pay VAT, which they later can claim back. Check your invoice to see from whom you actually purchased.
Quote
they don’t lose out if you mislead them by quoting somebody else’s number.
They do lose that money eventually.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 09:23:41 pm by wraper »
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2020, 09:24:24 pm »
That’s much more likely with EU sales lists that have to be submitted for intra-EU sales. Both parties submit details of those transactions.
When you enter VAT number, it is intra-EU sale. Parts get sold to you by their EU subsidiary and when parts cross the border, they pay VAT, which they later can claim back. Check your invoice to see from whom you actually purchased.

Yes I noticed some invoices are in Euro and some in USD. Did wonder if I should be treating the Euro ones differently.

Thanks for nudging me on that one.
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2020, 09:27:40 pm »
Quote
they don’t lose out if you mislead them by quoting somebody else’s number.
They do lose that money eventually.

Only if HMCE go chasing them for it, if they ever discover the ‘issue’. Or should HMCE go chasing the customer for it?
 

Online wraper

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2020, 09:31:56 pm »
Only if HMCE go chasing them for it, if they ever discover the ‘issue’. Or should HMCE go chasing the customer for it?
I only know that accountant at the company I worked at was chasing me like a year after I made a few personal orders from account I normally used for corporate purchases, LOL.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Arrow Electronics. Oh dear.
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2020, 02:28:57 am »
I don't think sales tax and import duty are the same thing. Sales tax is based on the price paid and is typically around 10%, normally collected by the seller at the time of purchase, it's unrelated to whether the goods are bought from within the USA or imported from elsewhere. Import duty seems to be based on some kind of calculated value and from what I've seen sounds like a far more substantial tax, I've never really looked into how it works.

  State sales tax and customs (federal gov) in the US are NOT the same thing.  The state that I'm in (usually) says that we are supposed to pay sales tax even on out of state purchases (they don't specifically say about out of country). If the seller doesn't collect the tax then we're supposed to write a check for the amount of the tax and send it to the state department of revenue.   :-DD   :-DD Laughing widget not showing up!
 


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