Author Topic: As if Solar fricken roadways wasn't bad enough, check out this "Great new idea"  (Read 1401 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Offline Jeroen3

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4209
  • Country: nl
  • Embedded Engineer
    • jeroen3.nl
It must be.
One does not just go around and install things on rail, especially not in germany. You need dozens or qualification, certification and permits. And not to mention you first have to invent a new ISO standard to do your thing if no existing standard describes your product.
 

Offline olkipukki

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: 00
I wonder if this is a joke:


No, it's not

Quote

Development of the technology in European factories started back in 2013, says Bankset, with €10 million in financing provided by Bankset Investments Ltd, Bankset Energy Ltd and other, unidentified, public and private investors, mainly from the United Kingdom and the United States. Another €300 million is set to be raised in a further financing round

I'm happy to do any projects in ratio 1 (my) : 300 (them)   :-DD
 

Offline SerieZ

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 191
  • Country: ch
  • Zap!
Just why?  :palm: I guess at least the trains are not driving on them... I first Imagined the rails themselves being a solar panel.  :-//
As easy as paint by number.
 

Offline Ice-Tea

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
  • Country: be
    • Freelance Hardware Engineer
Three words: "Drop Chute Toilet".
 
The following users thanked this post: Cyberdragon, Baron Gray

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15794
  • Country: fr
Yeah, yet another one.

The "why" is relatively obvious (apart from just being hype): I guess the idea is to put solar panels on areas that are *already* covered by something else, instead of having to cover free areas. I don't necessarily disagree with this point. I'd rather see solar panels on railways than invading wild nature.

That said, there are many other covered areas where they could be put on, so...

And sure, this roadways/railways approach is still not worth it in terms of ROI, and the maintenance cost would IMO be very significant. Just take a look at how much it costs to maintain railways already. Given the constraints, I wouldn't bet on a lifetime for the panels exceeding a few weeks. Oh well.

 

Offline Syntax Error

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: gb
That might work on a maglev transit system. The PV cells are laid out in the central casson/support, which over their aggregate length, provides enough current to drive the passenger car's magnets - about 100KW. Small problem when there is no sunshine, but that's when the free energy dynamo kicks in - pedals.

A similiar concept on solar pavements, where people wear maglev boots or ride maglev skateboards.

We don't need roads :)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 04:37:29 pm by Syntax Error »
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10172
  • Country: gb
Surely the sloping embankments around many railway lines would offer much better siting for traditional solar panel arrays. A fair number of them must face in a favourable direction.
Best Regards, Chris
 
The following users thanked this post: Baron Gray

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5569
  • Country: us
A clever way to make the cost of the solar cells themselves unimportant.  Just think of the interconnect problem with these small area panels distributed over huge distances.

This might be slightly less nonsensical in some regions of the world like central north america, the plains of russia and argentina and others where terrain doesn't provide shading, where vegetation is short so it doesn't shade these ground level installations, where periodic rains provide some cleaning and where there aren't periodic dust storms.  But wait, in areas like that conventional solar installations also work better.
 

Offline IDEngineer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1950
  • Country: us
As folks propose ever-more solar panels, I wonder if there are any environmental impacts of blocking solar radiation from Earth's surface?

Which reminds me: There just HAS to be downstream impact from wind turbine farms. They extract energy from the wind, correct? That is to say, if they were 100% efficient at their job there would be no wind downstream of them. Well, they may not be 100% efficient but they DO extract some energy... what is the downstream impact? How does that affect (say) historical seed dispersal patterns? Prevailing winds used by migratory birds? Natural heating and cooling of urban and rural areas? Has anyone considered these impacts?

A bunch of dams here in the Pacific Northwest, which you'd think would be the very definition of permanent fixtures, have been challenged in courts recently for removal. Several have been breached and others are on the chopping block. Imagine the irony if someday courts start ruling that wind and solar farms have to be removed because of environmental impacts.  :o
 

Offline Ice-Tea

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
  • Country: be
    • Freelance Hardware Engineer
As folks propose ever-more solar panels, I wonder if there are any environmental impacts of blocking solar radiation from Earth's surface?

Plenty of information about that.

https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/127

Quote
According to the United Nations 170,000 square kilometers of forest is destroyed each year. If we constructed solar farms at the same rate, we would be finished in 3 years.

So, compared with anything else: peanuts.
 

Offline IDEngineer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1950
  • Country: us
I didn't see anything addressing the environmental impact of preventing the solar radiation from continuing to reach the Earth's surface. That was my question, the impact of *changing* how the sun reaches the surface. Just as how we are changing wind patterns with miles of turbine arrays.
 

Online Gregg

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Country: us
On the surface (all puns intended >:D) installing solar panels on railway ties seems like a better idea than solar roadways or even solar pedestrian / bicycle ways; until looking at the practical details.
Better than a bad idea, doesn’t make it a good idea; but that’s never stopped the gullible.  :-DD

Railroads are generally very protective of their infrastructure and would require substantial income to even consider this type of interference to their core operation.  I doubt that any corporate owned railway would allow another company to install and connect these panels as they certainly would interfere with ongoing tie and rail replacement not to mention possible weakening of the rail bed structure to run conduit and wire from between the rails to main conduits parallel to the tracks. 

Other concerns are vandalism, vibration, maintenance costs and issues with animal rights groups claiming these interfere with wild animals crossing the tracks.
 

Offline BreakingOhmsLaw

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 394
  • Country: de
  • Certified solder fume addict
In Germany you say?    8)

Well, my friends, let me introduce you to a little german thing called a "Gleisschotterbettungsreinigungsmaschine".

Yes, that's an actual german word.
And,yes, that's actually a thing:


It picks up the entire rail, scoops up the gravel bed, cleans the gravel, places it back and puts down the rails again.
Ziz is ze german way, ja?




 
The following users thanked this post: Baron Gray

Offline jeroen79

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 529
Why are they installing narrow solar panels only on the ties?
Wouldn't it be simpler to place longer panels spanning several ties?
Yes, that's an actual german word.
So is "Gleisschotterbettungsreinigungsmaschineführer".
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:05:13 pm by jeroen79 »
 
The following users thanked this post: Baron Gray

Offline BreakingOhmsLaw

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 394
  • Country: de
  • Certified solder fume addict
Actually, it becomes Gleisschotterbettungsreinigungsmaschinenführer.
We add another n because it's not long enough yet. And because we can.
 

Offline HwAoRrDk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1607
  • Country: gb
I see the article says that they propose special solar panel cleaning trains that will pass along the track and wash the panels. That's all very well, but it sounds to me like this cleaning will need to be undertaken very frequently, imposing a significant overhead. Wouldn't surprise me if the extra expense of such cleaning will exceed the revenue generated by the panels!

I mean, there are so many things that would deposit dirt or other detritus on such panels:

- Falling leaves. A lot of British suburban lines run in cuttings, with significant tree coverage on the embankments either side, leading to the infamous train delays due to "leaves on the line". Rainfall alone ain't going to clear those.
- Rail-head treatment trains (RHTT) - a method of mitigating the above - blast dirt everywhere. If you have ever seen one, you'll know how exceedingly dirty the train itself gets. Now imagine that muck covering the panels. Every RHTT would need to be followed by a solar panel cleaning train!
- Any rail grinding would blast the surface of the panels with a red hot shower of sparks. I'm sure even the most robust of glass surfaces couldn't help but end up with some pitting and un-washable slag stuck to it.
- They would never be able to use them on any lines frequented by steam trains, due to the potential danger of fireboxes dropping hot ashes.

They also mention that "parking rails" are a candidate location. I don't see why, as such places tend to be overgrown with weeds in sunny seasons, due to their infrequent use. Would be yet another maintenance overhead, as the weeds would need to be kept down.

Their test installation in Germany was supposed to have been completed last year. Would be interesting to see whether they have had very much success with it.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf