Author Topic: Aussie's attitudes  (Read 3334 times)

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Online Cerebus

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2018, 11:29:13 pm »
My guess is it that came from the early Irish convicts/settlers and their contempt for the English landowners and political class.

Typical bloody Irish trying to take the credit for being the salt of the earth.  :) The vast majority of transportees from England were poor Londoners*, which is where the cheery cockney piss-taking and lack of respect for 'persons' that is close to my heart transmutes into the common Aussie bloke-ishness. I don't think it's an accident that you're as likely to hear "I'm just an ordinary bloke" from a working class Londoner as you are from an Aussie.

*Of the 162,000 transportees, 26,000 women were from London (and Middlesex - adjacent and nowadays just part of London). I haven't been able to find a figure for Male transportees from the same area, but overall 4 1/2 times an many men as women were transported, which implies that Male transportees from London and Middlesex were about 116,000 in number. So about 73% of transportees were Londoners.
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Offline wasyoungonce

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2018, 11:53:34 pm »
The whole deadly animals thing is a bit of a myth. Sure, we have some of the most venomous creatures in the world, but for the most part, you'll probably never come across them..........

Jeez worked in Katherine Northern Territory,  75SQN F18's (330Klms south of Darwin)....croc's, water Buffalo (not the American type), snakes....did I mention the croc's!   Every time you went near any water (up north) you had to be very aware...in fact you didn't go near it unless fishing...did I mention the fishing..."Barra" best eating fish ever!

Loved the place best positing ever.  US Marine SQN visited occasionally some for ~ month or more.  They hated it way to far from civilisation and no port for shipping cargo no McDonalds (in 90's).
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Offline Dubbie

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2018, 11:58:27 pm »
One thing I've noticed about Australia is that you love your rules!

I was on a tram or train in Sydney and counted something like 18 different signs telling to not to do this and warning about fines if you do that.
The way they are worded is very authoritarian as well. Something like "You will be fined $200 if you eat on this train" Whereas here in NZ it might say something like "For the comfort of other passengers, please refrain from eating on the train"

Just walking around the city, there seems to be rules everywhere!
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2018, 12:05:08 am »
One thing I've noticed about Australia is that you love your rules!

I was on a tram or train in Sydney and counted something like 18 different signs telling to not to do this and warning about fines if you do that.
The way they are worded is very authoritarian as well. Something like "You will be fined $200 if you eat on this train" Whereas here in NZ it might say something like "For the comfort of other passengers, please refrain from eating on the train"

Just walking around the city, there seems to be rules everywhere!
Maybe that’s a matter of tuning the message to the recipient. Insubordinate monkeys need firm guidance. ;D

I’m jesting, for anyone confused.
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2018, 12:27:08 am »
Have you followed the news? Reporter without Borders lists the UK amongst the “Enemies of the internet”, alongside contries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, China and Pakistan. There’s ever more surveillance and filterting going on. Let’s also not forget the plan to filter internet porn, requiring anyone wanting to see a naughty video to register. Or how it’s one of the very few nations that has a decryption law, locking people up for failure to decrypt.

The same is happening in real life. The CCTV density is unlike pretty much any other place on Earth. There’s no doubt about it, the UK government makes your business its business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/porn-block-ban-in-the-uk-age-verifcation-law

I'm not going to be baited into debating it here, because that will just de-rail the thread. So I'm going to correct the misinformation and then shut up.

Your claim that there is general Internet filtering in the UK in the sense that any reasonable person would understand by that phrase doesn't hold water. China, yes, Turkey yes, Egypt, yes, UK no. I have never, ever, in all my years using the Internet from the UK (1993-present) encountered a page saying "You're not allowed to see that". Then again, I've never gone looking for child pornography which is the only thing (other than the aforementioned court ordered blocks) that is ever officially filtered, and that is not by all ISPs by any means.

That some ISPs, mostly mobile phone providers, provide opt-in or opt-out content filtering is not a UK phenomenon, ISPs the world over offer some variety of 'family-friendly' Internet. This is not the same as your implication that 'the UK filters the Internet'.

The reason that I have a fair insight into how the UK Internet really works is because I was the network manager for one of the UK's earliest ISPs (10th to start by my count), was there the day that the LINX voted to fund the Internet Watch Foundation (who provide the filter lists for child pornography sites), was a non-executive director of the London Internet Exchange for years, stayed in the business until the mid 2000s and still have plenty of contact with people who are still at the coal face. If there were sub-rosa activity to filter content that the general public didn't know about, I probably would.

The putative "porn blocking" doesn't actually exist yet, is not actually blocking, and at the rate it is going it probably never will. It was a sop to certain pressure groups (i.e. the DUP) and they are just discovering that saying "let there be age verification" and actually doing it are two very, very different things. Anyway, the onus on age-verification is on the porn sites, they're not being filtered. It's just the same as bars, prove your age or we won't let you in to partake. Sure, blocking for non-compliance is a possibility, but so is having your bar shut down if you regularly serve under-age drinkers.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2018, 01:34:57 am »
I'm not going to be baited into debating it here, because that will just de-rail the thread. So I'm going to correct the misinformation and then shut up.

Your claim that there is general Internet filtering in the UK in the sense that any reasonable person would understand by that phrase doesn't hold water. China, yes, Turkey yes, Egypt, yes, UK no. I have never, ever, in all my years using the Internet from the UK (1993-present) encountered a page saying "You're not allowed to see that". Then again, I've never gone looking for child pornography which is the only thing (other than the aforementioned court ordered blocks) that is ever officially filtered, and that is not by all ISPs by any means.

That some ISPs, mostly mobile phone providers, provide opt-in or opt-out content filtering is not a UK phenomenon, ISPs the world over offer some variety of 'family-friendly' Internet. This is not the same as your implication that 'the UK filters the Internet'.

The reason that I have a fair insight into how the UK Internet really works is because I was the network manager for one of the UK's earliest ISPs (10th to start by my count), was there the day that the LINX voted to fund the Internet Watch Foundation (who provide the filter lists for child pornography sites), was a non-executive director of the London Internet Exchange for years, stayed in the business until the mid 2000s and still have plenty of contact with people who are still at the coal face. If there were sub-rosa activity to filter content that the general public didn't know about, I probably would.

The putative "porn blocking" doesn't actually exist yet, is not actually blocking, and at the rate it is going it probably never will. It was a sop to certain pressure groups (i.e. the DUP) and they are just discovering that saying "let there be age verification" and actually doing it are two very, very different things. Anyway, the onus on age-verification is on the porn sites, they're not being filtered. It's just the same as bars, prove your age or we won't let you in to partake. Sure, blocking for non-compliance is a possibility, but so is having your bar shut down if you regularly serve under-age drinkers.

Let's be clear that you are actively debating it here. That ship has sailed and backing out later under the guise of this proclamation isn't going to save face. ;) You should also be careful not to shoot the messenger. The reasonable person you speak of would understand that a well respected journalist organisation, from a sector with a large stake in and knowledge of freedom of information, has listed the UK as an enemy of the internet. So Iran yes. China yes. UK yes. It is what it is. As you could read in the article I linked the blocking started in the mid 2000's and escalated from there, so it's very possible you missed it.

It's also important to note that it's not just about heinous crimes committed against children. Few people will object to that and that type of content was actually the first to be blocked. Overblocking has occurred in many categories, amongst which political satire, feminism and gay content, civil liberties and computing sites, but also Childline, NSPCC, and Police websites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/uk-branded-an-enemy-of-the-internet-for-the-first-time-by-reporters-without-borders-9196571.html

"Since the mid-2000s there has been a gradual shift toward increased surveillance and police measures in the UK. National security concerns, the need to fight terrorism and crime, and issues regarding child protection have resulted in the state introducing extensive surveillance measures over online communications as well as filtering and tracking practices. In some cases these are encouraged or required by the state and used by state agencies. In others they are voluntarily implemented by private operators (e.g., internet service providers).[5]

The country was listed among the "Enemies of the Internet" in 2014 by Reporters Without Borders,[6] a category of countries with the highest level of internet censorship and surveillance that "mark themselves out not just for their capacity to censor news and information online but also for their almost systematic repression of Internet users".[7] Other major economies listed in this category include China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia and Saudi Arabia.

Current situation

Internet customers in the UK are prohibited from accessing a range of web sites by default, because they have their Internet access filtered by their ISPs. The filtering program has applied to new ISP customers since the end of 2013, and has been extended to existing users on a rolling basis. A voluntary code of practice agreed by all four major ISPs[8] means that customers have to 'opt out' of the ISP filtering to gain access to the blocked content.[9] However, the complex nature of the active monitoring systems means that users cannot usually opt out of the monitoring and re-routing of their data traffic, something which may render their data security vulnerable. The range of content blocked by ISPs can be varied over time.[10] Categories blocked across the major ISPs include: Dating, Drugs, Alcohol and Tobacco, File sharing, Gambling, Games, Pornography, Nudity, Social networking, Suicide and Self-harm, Weapons and violence, Obscenity, Criminal Skills, Hate, Media Streaming, Fashion and Beauty, Gore, Cyberbullying, Hacking and Web-blocking circumvention tools"
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 01:39:58 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2018, 02:22:56 am »
It may say something about Aussie attitudes in that, in the UK, we "take the piss out of" out mates,
That's what I hear here.

Quote
in Aus you "rip the piss out of" your mates.
I can't recall ever having heard that.
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2018, 02:34:18 am »
It may say something about Aussie attitudes in that, in the UK, we "take the piss out of" out mates,
That's what I hear here.

Quote
in Aus you "rip the piss out of" your mates.
I can't recall ever having heard that.

I've known quite a few Aussies use the phrase, definitely one from Melbourne and one from Perth.

Maybe it's just the girls, both the ones I'm certain about using it are Women.   :)
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2018, 02:41:08 am »
Oh.  Melbournians.


The gender bias could be a factor too.  I've observed that sometimes the girls can make the guys blush.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 02:42:43 am by Brumby »
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2018, 03:06:06 am »
I've observed that sometimes the girls can make the guys blush.

Blush? Sometimes you just hope that they don't decide to eat you. Based on several experiences some years ago, probably later than I should have done,  I formulated a rule for myself "Never go out drinking with a party that consists of only Aussie girls and yourself". I mean it was fun, but ...
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2018, 12:29:24 pm »
I can’t comment on the Aussies beign this or that.
However over the years I’ve tried to read lots of articles about the different behavioral traits of cultures around the world (generally speaking), and I’ll just say that the matter is so complex that I’d pay 1000€ for a book that would explain country by country how most people are.

It is called cultural anthopology. Plenty of good books around, and I can send you one for a 1000€ :).

Incidentally, our Aussie culture is strongly influenced by other cultures, especially in the big cities. Overall, culturally, immigration has been good for the country. For example, most Aussies enjoy Indian, Chinese, Vietnamee, Italian, Greek, and American cuisine (if you call McDonalds "cuisine"). Actually I do not think there is such a thing as Australian cuisine. Meat pies, Vegemite and damper are not exactly what one might call cuisine. Australia is one big mix of cultures.

Some cultural behaviours from immigrants conflict with our norms and some can be considered offensive; and vice versa. Some immigrants try hard to learn English and assimilate well, whilst others are not interested and remain stuck in their communities. My daughter emigrated from Australia to France. She is fluent in French - reading, writing, and speaking - both at a normal and academic level. When she moved, she purposely avoided English speakers and indulge herself into the French culture. She forced herself to learn French and has worked hard. That's the way to learn a language and a culture, not hide away in an ethnic ghetto.

Unlike the French who have a government institution to protect the French language, Australia does not even have English as its official language. What is the official language of Australia? There is none.
 

Offline engineerguy

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2018, 01:00:10 pm »
Overall I'd say we do have that sort of attitude here...I think a lot stems from our foundation as a nation. From the late 1700s up until the late 1800s, a lot of settlers came to a country that was largely inhospitable compared with where they came from, they had to essentially build civilisation from the ground up, start from the very beginning, tame the land, overcome the numerous difficulties with the different climate, wildlife, etc...so I think this instilled a sense of rugged independence, this sense of striving to prove ones worth. Though there has been a massive shift away from this mindset, and I've noticed this a lot with younger generations/my generation...more and more people are buying into the idea that you need government approval/permission to do xyz, rather than going out there themselves and taking the risk. But this sort of carefree attitude is still prevalent.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2018, 01:08:49 pm »
One thing I've noticed about Australia is that you love your rules!
Only their own !  :P

They don't give a shit about international sporting rules.....cricket ball tampering in SA.

<ducks for cover and runs>

For those that have missed it:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/25/an-unashamed-disgrace-ball-tampering-cheats-australian-cricket-fans
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 01:20:53 pm by tautech »
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2018, 01:31:37 pm »
You don't have to duck.

I - and I'm sure there will be many other Aussies - am completely pissed off with those idiots.  Right now, I'd be happy to bundle them up and drop them in your backyard for you to do whatever you want with them.

Absolute disgrace.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2018, 01:39:47 pm »
You don't have to duck.

I - and I'm sure there will be many other Aussies - am completely pissed off with those idiots.  Right now, I'd be happy to bundle them up and drop them in your backyard for you to do whatever you want with them.

Absolute disgrace.
We haven't heard the last of this I suspect.......what will the ICC do ?
Lifetime bans ?
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2018, 03:03:18 pm »
Don't know.  Don't care - aside from them getting their just desserts.  This isn't just an "error of judgement", it was a deliberate, planned exercise for something that should have just not entered into the thinking of players - at ANY level .... but as a national representative team.... ##$**#%^$@#%$#%&$$%^$!!!!!!

After a stunt like that, I wouldn't have any of them in a local club cricket team.
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2018, 03:07:09 pm »
It is called cultural anthopology. Plenty of good books around, and I can send you one for a 1000€ :).

I think he's after a pocket guide to the world's cultures, not a collection of essays on regional differences in reindeer herding practices in the Sami. Something like "Phineas Fogg's Guide to Foreigners, their Customs and Habits; or Why the French are so Terrible".
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Offline tautech

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2018, 06:16:32 am »
Couldn't resist  >:D not linking this pic in that my boy spotted on FB from a ZA cricket fan.....  :-DD

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Online MasterTech

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Re: Aussie's attitudes
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2018, 06:53:31 am »
It is called cultural anthopology. Plenty of good books around, and I can send you one for a 1000€ :).

I think he's after a pocket guide to the world's cultures, not a collection of essays on regional differences in reindeer herding practices in the Sami. Something like "Phineas Fogg's Guide to Foreigners, their Customs and Habits; or Why the French are so Terrible".

Yes more like that. It would be awesome in doing business for example: with Northamericans better get straight to the point, with Turks make friends before negotiating, Asians will say 'yes' even when they mean 'no'... These are clear differences but I've read articles depicting very subtle ones among close countries,  this a deep subject and there is a lot to cover, material right now is disseminated and offered with a variety of detail.

To me the real barrier for effective communication is culture not language
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 06:59:39 am by MasterTech »
 


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