Author Topic: Australia data encryption law  (Read 4352 times)

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Offline soldar

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2019, 09:01:49 am »
When you enter the UK there are signs letting you know you are under the obligation to reveal passwords to any computer or other device and refusal will land you in jail. It's known as "Rubber-Hose Cryptanalysis".

The notion that morality has anything to do with governments is laughable. Morality is just whatever rules allow us to do what we want to do and prevent others from doing what they want to do. If we want to do it then it is moral and we will twist our "reasoning" so we can arrive at the foreordained conclusion.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2019, 12:54:21 am »
Every crime statistic I've seen in years indicates that crime in most places is falling.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2019, 01:39:38 am »
Every crime statistic I've seen in years indicates that crime in most places is falling.
It is. The world is safer than ever in pretty much every relevant aspect and metric. However, the increased availability of news gives the horrors of the world much more exposure. It seems this is exacerbated by people who utilize this to gain support for their political agenda. Fear is a powerful motivator.
 
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Online beanflying

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2019, 01:46:47 am »
Yep the news cycle is NOW and by anyone with a smart phone is a reporter (unless blocked or suppressed by the government of that country ::) ).

Seems India thinks our Farce is on a winner too  :palm: http://www.mydigitalfc.com/fc-weekend/privacy-vs-snooping
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Offline cdev

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2019, 03:10:31 am »
Censorship is more extensive on the Internet now than it ever was. There is a growing amount of milieu control.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 03:25:05 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2019, 03:19:01 am »
I just finished reading "Darkness at Noon" by Arthur Koestler. Its a gripping book.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 03:25:58 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2019, 06:22:14 am »
I don't mind logging them in and being present during the "search" to prove I am innocent (if it doesn't contain personal stuff not belonging to me) but I wouldn't want to give out passwords to use behind my back especially when not present as it defeats the whole purpose of what they're for.
 

Online Electro Detective

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2019, 08:34:00 am »
Right. I forget you don't have morals or feelings of your own, only a need for success.

If the people are happy, why not? Chinese people are just by nature competitive.
A competitive environment with good reward system is what we want.

Make your own life better by your hard work. No matter for whom.
I don't care if I work for USA making nukes against China, or I work for China recreating Soviet Union.
If I get my own life better and I take care of my own business, I'm all good.


Any other Chinese people follow this type of sellout SELFISH BS that borders on fifth column/treason activity??  :--

If you do, it can get ugly in Australia once the friendly non racist locals wise up and decide to look after numero uno

just sayin...   :popcorn:


 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2019, 09:12:13 am »
Any other Chinese people follow this type of sellout SELFISH BS that borders on fifth column/treason activity??  :--

I'm currently not living in China, and I'm not bound by Chinese law.
And as a matter of fact, I AM working under funds from US Army Research Lab, though it's a non-classified, non-military project.

Since I'm not bound by NDA from ARL either, I can legally work for a Chinese boss in the future, and I can publish all my works done for ARL (well, I must, as part of deliverable).
And of course, Chinese companies also want to hire people worked abroad, preferably on high end projects.

Not many Chinese people are patriots. We love our country, simply because it offers what we need. And of course we do have some reserve.
It's not uncommon for Chinese people to mutually use the government to extract values from average people, and in the meantime transfer their own money away from the communist party.

And there is a reason why Chinese government has a political hatred towards the west. It simply makes many things simple for the top rich people.
Imagine, if China is friendly to the west, then China will have a harmonized international policing and auditing system.
Then that means the top rich Chinese people can't conceal their wealth in a western bank, and a wealthy Chinese people living abroad can't conceal their income in China vise versa.
China is safer than Swiss banks in certain degree, and those rich people with access to international banking resource would like to keep it.
The same rule applies to trade. We don't enforce harmonized customs and international quality standards, because our rich people do want to make a cut from arbitraging internationally.

It's not a state secret, though Chinese government doesn't admit it.
Brute force works for the mass, but it never works for the powerful people. Chinese government is not stupid. That's why it has the policy that bribes the strong, and suppresses the weak.

If you do, it can get ugly in Australia once the friendly non racist locals wise up and decide to look after numero uno

Do what?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 09:14:03 am by blueskull »
 
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Online Electro Detective

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2019, 09:44:20 am »

Probably stop buying product dumps from China and get it from another country/nation that's less brainwashed and racist.

If we all had and or clung to that attitude that you sport, life would soon turn to sh!t for everyone everywhere.

Tell your controllers to go F themselves and move on to a better life mate   :-+

Without people like you supporting them, they can hit the streets and beg for food,
as non working class and shifty scammers eventually resort to.

They are just using you by making you feel important, superior and convincing you that's how life works

Been there, that's how their bank accounts and pockets 'work',
while they throw you a back pat and bone
and or discard you when a younger aggressive new blood comes crawling in to fill your shoes

you get shown the NLR door, and the silly cycle repeats...  :palm: :palm:




 

 
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2019, 09:16:56 am »
And there is a reason why Chinese government has a political hatred towards the west. It simply makes many things simple for the top rich people.
Imagine, if China is friendly to the west, then China will have a harmonized international policing and auditing system.
Then that means the top rich Chinese people can't conceal their wealth in a western bank, and a wealthy Chinese people living abroad can't conceal their income in China vise versa.
China is safer than Swiss banks in certain degree, and those rich people with access to international banking resource would like to keep it.
The same rule applies to trade. We don't enforce harmonized customs and international quality standards, because our rich people do want to make a cut from arbitraging internationally.
All this is conspiracy nonsense but I specially want to point out that China is part of the Common Reporting Standard and does share bank accounts information with all other countries part of that system which includes all developed countries.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2019, 05:57:03 pm »
This sets a scary precedent.  I know the states have been wanting to do this for a while now.  I'm sure all the 5 eyes would be in for it too.  Guessing they would only allow corporations and government to use it and not the average person.  Wonder what that would mean for HTTPS, would it be illegal to host a site using HTTPS unless you have a special license?  I could see them do that.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2019, 06:09:43 pm »
This sets a scary precedent.  I know the states have been wanting to do this for a while now.  I'm sure all the 5 eyes would be in for it too.  Guessing they would only allow corporations and government to use it and not the average person.  Wonder what that would mean for HTTPS, would it be illegal to host a site using HTTPS unless you have a special license?  I could see them do that.
The speculation is that this gives the other five eyes access too. Remember that they exchange information and most western companies have a presence in Australia.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2019, 10:35:18 pm »
Quote
However, cyber-security experts say it's not possible to create a "back door" decryption that would safely target just one person.

"Any vulnerability would just weaken the existing encryption scheme, affecting security overall for innocent people," said Dr Chris Culnane from the University of Melbourne.

Such a "security hole" could then be abused or exploited by criminals, he said.

Didn't the NSA try that years ago:
https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/21/nsa-technique-for-cisco-spying/

and they were were suspected of meddling with Cisco routers:
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cisco-help-customers-avoid-nsa-interception-by-shipping-equipment-empty-houses-1492704
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2019, 11:12:34 pm »
I am sure the NSA and our ASIO/DSD have already been doing it by stealth for years along with a lot of other private companies and governments. Keep China out of this topic too if possible ::)

It is the 'forced' and 'mandatory' nature of this legislation that is worrying in particular if it remains with no limited or zero oversight provisions. When the decryption is known by Australia you can be assured it will be known by others too. The arguments of some 'if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't have a problem with ...' are deluded fools as their privacy is eroded.
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2019, 01:16:23 am »
If we can't have end to end encryption, e-commerce is right out the window.

Except that root CA issuers may have already been compromised by governments. They can easily mount an MitM attack without you knowing.
China has compromised CNNIC, and I believe the five eyes have done the same to major western CAs.

That is probably true and if true certainly bad, but the real threat is cyber-crime which is already an order of magnitude more significant than the totality of street crime reported on the news everyday and estimate are that it will reach $6T by 2021 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2017/07/13/the-true-cost-of-cybercrime-for-businesses/#22a95d9c4947).

Now, I'm not sure if I buy the $6T number but surely reducing security will only make cyber crime easier and more prevalent. 


Brian
 

Offline apis

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2019, 03:36:18 am »
When you enter the UK there are signs letting you know you are under the obligation to reveal passwords to any computer or other device and refusal will land you in jail. It's known as "Rubber-Hose Cryptanalysis".

The notion that morality has anything to do with governments is laughable. Morality is just whatever rules allow us to do what we want to do and prevent others from doing what they want to do. If we want to do it then it is moral and we will twist our "reasoning" so we can arrive at the foreordained conclusion.
Moral rules is not whatever rules are convenient for the moment. Morals are rules that are completely necessary for a functioning society/groups, they have been sharpened by evolution over millennia. There are lots of experiments that show that other social animals also have a concept of morals and they are often similar to our own. If people cooperate everyone benefits, if people act like sociopaths every one looses, so we reward social behaviour and sanction antisocial behaviour, it's something completely rational and necessary. That said, some people clearly have a twisted idea of what is moral and not so it's up to debate what can be considered moral.

What you describe is a form of psychological defence mechanism called rationalising: "when the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by concealing the true motivations for his or her own thoughts, actions, or feelings through the elaboration of reassuring or self serving but incorrect explanations".
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2019, 05:02:31 am »
If people cooperate everyone benefits <snip>.

Until someone breaks the rule and gains extras from it.
There is gotta be some punishments saying if you break the rule, you get fucked.
That's what laws are.
Inevitably, with laws, there are wrongfully convicted victims.
Therefore, laws are relaxed from moral standard.
Thus, there are smart people weaseling between moral and laws to gain extras.
Those people will always win, until "innocent until proven guilty" gets abolished.
 
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Offline apis

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2019, 06:18:42 am »
Until someone breaks the rule and gains extras from it.
There is gotta be some punishments saying if you break the rule, you get fucked.
That's what laws are.
Laws make up a system that regulates and ensures that individuals or a community adhere to the will of the state.
If the state wants a well functioning society with people who are happy and cooperate then the laws should reward social behaviour and sanction antisocial behaviour. But there is nothing that says that laws have to do that, nor are they limited to encourage people to behave morally. So laws are not the same as morals at all, but there is often a relation, since you can't have to much antisocial behaviour or society would collapse.

Inevitably, with laws, there are wrongfully convicted victims.
Therefore, laws are relaxed from moral standard.
Thus, there are smart people weaseling between moral and laws to gain extras.
Those people will always win, until "innocent until proven guilty" gets abolished.
There are those who act antisocially and some get away with it. Ideally you would want to catch and sanction everyone that acts immorally. But the justice system is far from perfect, 'innocent until proven guilty' is a good principle that prevents people from being sanctioned incorrectly, since that is considered more harmful to society than the alternative. But remember: the law isn't the same as morals, so it could also be the law that is wrong or the state that is acting immorally. As everyone knows, there are many states where the people in power only care about enriching themselves. You really need checks and balances that ensure the people with power aren't acting immorally themselves, or else you have a recipe for disaster.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2019, 06:40:53 am »
Those people will always win, until "innocent until proven guilty" gets abolished.

You are continuing to be WAY OFF TOPIC and your propping up of Chinese goverment dogma and propaganda is more than annoying! I have kept this 'polite' but if you want to continue it won't remain that way. Got collect your $0.50 on youtube
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2019, 07:03:51 am »
But the justice system is far from perfect, 'innocent until proven guilty' is a good principle that prevents people from being sanctioned incorrectly, since that is considered more harmful to society than the alternative.

Exactly. Since we are talking civilized modern society, you can't just sanction a person without basis from law. That's why laws are always open to be exploited.

No idea if you are trolling, or you are payed by the Chinese government, or you are just a despicable person.

I have no empathy to certain people. My sympathy is only for my own interest -- to keep certain people from unresting.
This is BTW exactly how democracy is in China. In China, everyone works for the government, one way or another.
In return, the government keeps everyone with certain level of democracy, only for serving the high lives better.
It's a fair system as any vicious predators can step into the circle of high lives as long as they are willing to step on bodies.
An ideal efficient society should have no democracy besides social safety net, which is only used to stabilize the society.

People should have the self awareness that though people are supposedly born equal, people are not equal after birth.
Social hierarchy exists, and it is nothing secret.
Every country has it, and whether the people recognize it or not is the difference between consciousness and hypocrisy.

I know I will never get along with western culture, so I'm leaving.
I will be happily working in eastern Asia, be it China, Japan or Korea. Both have one in common -- bosses are absolute authority.
I can live in such an environment, no matter be the one being stepped on or the one stepping on the others.

You are continuing to be WAY OFF TOPIC and your propping up of Chinese goverment dogma and propaganda is more than annoying! I have kept this 'polite' but if you want to continue it won't remain that way. Got collect your $0.50 on youtube

Being someone who loves exploiting things, I don't want "innocent until proven guilty" to be abolished at all!
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2019, 07:06:58 am »
Probably stop buying product dumps from China and get it from another country/nation that's less brainwashed and racist.
If we all had and or clung to that attitude that you sport, life would soon turn to sh!t for everyone everywhere.

You never win fighting free market. Everything versus money, money wins, all the time.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2019, 07:16:09 am »
China is part of the Common Reporting Standard and does share bank accounts information with all other countries part of that system which includes all developed countries.

Only starting in 2018. As a result, Chinese government busted a few actors and actresses dodging mainland income tax in Hong Kong.

Before that, if Chinese government wanted to run a bank checking on someone living abroad, Chinese government will have to convince interpol.

And political offenses and several other offenses are not being cooperated by foreign banks anyway. The system only worked before 2018 for corrupted government officers concealing their wealth abroad.

It's getting worse since 2018, and that's true.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 07:17:55 am by blueskull »
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2019, 08:14:20 am »
@ Blueskull kindly delete your last posts and !@#$ OFF this thread!  :rant:

Signed the other 99% of us.
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Australia data encryption law
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2019, 08:24:04 am »
Signed the other 99% of us.

Who the !@#$ do you think you are?
 


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