General > General Technical Chat
Australian Engineers Registration Act?
RoGeorge:
Oh well, registered slavery is a whole new level than casual slavery (AKA employment). :-DD
station240:
--- Quote from: Terry Bites on March 21, 2021, 04:03:53 pm ---I think this is going to happen globally sooner or later. Electrical and electronic engineers and particularly software engineers have had it easy compared to just about any profession you can imagine. You can't be a self-taught surgeon with a successful track record and think that's ok. We put our lives in the hands of engineers every single day and that has to be taken seriously.
--- End quote ---
I refuse to treat Electrical Engineering and Electronic Engineering as the same things, just because some basic things like Ohms law are the same.
Electronics Engineer screws up a Thermal Resistance calculation - Black epoxy casing cracks open and smoke escapes.
Electronical Engineer screws up a Thermal Resistance calculation - Transformer casing cracks open and smoke/flame escapes (plus resulting blackout).
Yes there are areas of Electronics Engineering (EA) where lives are at risk if it fails, Critical Telecommunications hardware, Aviation, Robotics, Medical, Fire alarm/detection, and some others.
Some of these areas are spelled out in the legislation, but then everything else is lumped in as well.
Basic PCB design is unlikely to get anyone killed, NZXT's crappy PCIe riser card that catches fire came close though, though that was made in China.
Yet it looks like even this would require 4 year uni degree + 4 years working under someone else + $415 a year to EA.
End result, it's no longer profitable to design PCBs in this country |O
I'm yet to be (nearly) killed by anything electronic designed in the Western World, China yup lots of shit from there.
--- Quote from: Terry Bites on March 21, 2021, 04:03:53 pm ---How you can demonstrate competence beyond your employers satisfaction or shed door without recognised standards of some sort? It sounds like this scheme is well-meaning but a total fuck-up.
--- End quote ---
The biggest fuck-up is involving Engineering Australia in this, you can't even join unless an existing member sponsors you.
It's not an industry accreditation board, it's an Old Boys Club, it's a Lodge, it's a private school tie, it's a resume filler.
What happens when an entire workplace with NDAs has no existing members, none of you can join ever ?
Plus EA get most of their money from membership fees, yet the legislation appears to let them decide who Legally needs Registration.
Biggest problem I see in Engineering is second guessing:
a. The Manufacturer says this cladding isn't to be used on multistory buildings, meh is should be fine (Grenfell tower fire, and some in Victoria)
b. I don't fully understand this unusual bridge design, but it seems ok (FIU pedestrian bridge collapse)
c. Customer needs some extra holes in this PCB, just add them, no need to redesign the PCB (supplier to NZXT's PCIe riser card)
LaserSteve:
EA should adopt part of the US Model. We define things that can kill in the broad sense. You need a PE to do that work in my state.
My former employer designated me, a non-degreed engineer, as a "Senior Field Engineer" on the business card. I got used to visiting Federal labs, and when asked a question outside of my scope, I simply said, "I'm not a PE in the State of XXXX and I cannot answer that question", Company Happy, Engineering Society happy, Customer happy most of the time. The company assumes the risk if I did work a PE should have done, and also I acquire part of the risk, and could be fined/charged if something went wrong. It is legal to do that here in most states. END OF PROBLEM.
Can I design a man rated structure or a life support device. Nope. Can I suggest a design, yes. Can I build one and test it as a technologist Oh Yes, . Can I improve it prior to submission, Oh Yes.. Can I advise a PE about my opinion, yes. I did that often as a PE was my former supervisor. Once in a while He'd say something along the line of "justify It, Prove It, show me the math", so off to the library I go.
Round here an Engineering Professor teaching in certain lines of work is granted an assumed PE status automatically for certain things while teaching. They also are honorary shop teachers. :o
Usually I'd get good treatment if I went on site, and explained, I'm designated as an Engineer in my title, but really I'm a well experienced technician. Often I had a better interaction with scientists, facilities folks, health and safety, and regulatory then the full bred degreed engineers.
Yet another employer once ordered me, when I trained medical service Biomeds on CT systems, that if a surgeon or radiologist declared an emergency, and I was on site, but an Engineer was not, to bring up the imaging system under repair to save a life if possible. Use my best judgment on the calibration parameters, and hand the system over to the Radiologist. Scary, but who would want some one to bleed out, compared to a possible mild X-ray overdose. The senior guy teaching the course muttered something along the lines of "Turn on the breakers, turn the key, input the password, select the procedure, click the mouse, and press the button if you need to." That made me shudder. The threshold was "Auto Accident, Bleed-out, or Something Equally Serious" and don't expect Good Samaritan laws to apply.
In my present work,
I've tagged out a system on a Engineer with a Degree (PhD) who made some design and procedural errors. He laughed about it later, after things were corrected. . That is my veto power as a Senior Technician. I had better damn well be right before I do it. Facility staff tell me my dividing line where what I do stops is anything inside or on mounted the wall. Even then they will ask me what I want and have observed.
How you codify that is difficult, but it does work. I know better then to repair the elevators. I don't touch drinking water or power distribution, and I sure as heck do not repair the building stairs. For Biomed, I only work on research devices that do not support pets or humans, and are approved by the investigational committee. No Avionics, unless it goes on an experimental aircraft and is signed off by a designated examiner.
If I think I'm working on something I need inspected, I pick up the phone at work and call. A PE pops in and has me explain what I have done,, and show my drawings. It is simple, and it works. I can even set the test for the CET, I'm grandfathered in due to my age.
"Safety of Life" is the dividing line for me.
Steve
Circlotron:
--- Quote from: floobydust on March 17, 2021, 03:09:40 am ---Engineers are still the fall guy for corrupt leadership or a corporation that will not let them design/test properly.
--- End quote ---
https://dilbert.com/strip/2001-07-29
Circlotron:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on March 16, 2021, 05:07:59 am ---If you have to apprentice to an registered engineer for four years to become a registered engineer, how did the first one get registered?
--- End quote ---
And if the first one wasn't a recognised engineer, their apprentice's qualification would presumably be invalid, and so on down the line to today.
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