General > General Technical Chat

Australian Engineers Registration Act?

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DeanA:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2021, 07:23:56 am ---What I predict will happen here is essentially nothing. Individuals will still do electronics design work, and companies will continue to hire electronics design engineers with zero shits given to what any legislation says.
Most people and companies in the electronics engineering industry won't even know this legislation exists.
It's only if someone reports them and they somehow make a big stink about it will anyone know it exists and starts caring. It will require case law judgement to figure that out and set any sort of legal precedence.

--- End quote ---

Problem comes in when specifications and contracts start being written which request signoff by a Registered Professional Engineer.
We have already seen this happen in Qld, for example this clause is in a TMR Specification for a Qld electronic speed limit signs:

"Technical Specifications and certifications of the VSLS and/or VSL/LCS components
(signed by the Contractor’s RPEQ) must be submitted to the Principal via the Administrator for
verification prior to manufacture. These components include the group controller, sign face, LEDs,
LED matrix boards, pixel arrangements showing horizontal and vertical pitch and total number of
pixels, power supply, communication ports, cable termination, enclosure and mounting accessories."

So employers that do this kind of work will start looking for "Registered Professional Engineers" to employ.

vk6zgo:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2021, 07:49:20 am ---
--- Quote from: beanflying on March 21, 2021, 07:32:04 am ---The last quote I pulled from the Vic Gov report.


--- Quote ---Most respondents agreed the guidelines on providing professional engineering services did not require any additional information or amendment. However, based on feedback from respondents that disagreed, the guidelines would benefit from expanding the descriptions of the terms ‘engineering’, ‘service’ and ‘engineering service’. Respondent feedback also suggests the guidelines would be improved by the inclusion of an additional section that assists readers to distinguish professional engineering services from other services, including other engineering services which are not intended to be captured by the Act, such as those provided by technologists and technicians.
--- End quote ---

Would seem to be a fairly clear idea of intent on who/what it is NOT trying to capture.

--- End quote ---

Again, watch the video. It is reasonably clear that actual design work means you doing "professional engineering work", a technogist is just someone who implements that design.


--- Quote ---The Legislation as I have stated isn't ambiguous Not an Engineer Not able to get the bit of paper to work as ..... What scope those self identifying as Engineers or working in that field can do is I think still open for some debate over the next few years.
--- End quote ---

Watch the video.
I'd capture the part if I can find it again.

EDIT: Found it, around the 1:00:00 mark


From that it is very clear that professional engineer is the one that does the design work, and the technologist implements it.

--- End quote ---

The first column includes a lot of stuff that Engineers don't do.

The "raw materials" are processed in factories by people who may be Physicists, Chemists, Metallurgists, "Technologists", & maybe, even Engineers.
(Along the way, before the factory, others come into it :-, like various flavours of miners, who are probably from around Certificate level, to Mining Engineers, to, again, Metallurgists, but let's ignore that part).

Some of the EE's "raw materials" are completed devices from semiconductor factories, others from places that make resistors, capacitors, inductors, etc.

Some of the physical hardware comes from metal extrusion factories, some specials are made up by "Engineering Works", who will include in their ranks, specialists in casting, machining, & so on, including a few Engineers.

Going from the "raw materials" to the finished product hasn't been how things were done since back in Da Vinci's time-------& he was a sculptor, not an Engineer!

The "Maintenance" column, though probably fairly valid in Civil Engineering, is Bollocks for Electronics "out in the wild".

Hoping not to insult anyone, I'd like to point out that, in my long experience, EEs in general were very poor at finding faults in equipment-------------it isn't their job!

The same is generally true with Automotive Engineers.
The M.I.A.M.E. up on your car repairer's wall doesn't mean they are degree holders.

Unfortunately, at least with Electronics, TAFE has been so dumbed down that the so- called "Techs" being turned out are just marginally more effective than the guys answering the phone & reading off a script.

The idea of a qualified Boss  & a lot of "arms & legs" running about doing their bidding seems to be the ideal of the MBAs, & the like, running today's industry.









gnuarm:
I was just thinking about how insurance agents are licensed in the US state they are in.  Some of our states are not so large.  I have property in two states and was looking at a property in a third, all within some 70 miles of each other.  I could not find a single agent that could cover all three states because of the licensing issues. 

Sometimes I think we go a bit overboard with the licensing thing.  You need a license to do many professional services that are a lot less technical than electronics work.  Here a license is required to cut hair or do nails.   i don't know what prompted this idea really.  There must have been a series of hairstyling fatalities and someone in the government said, "The carnage must end!" 

Have any of the politicians sponsoring this bill explained in any clear terms why they felt it was needed?  Was it just vague generalities or did something specific happen? 

srb1954:

--- Quote from: GodIsRealUnless DefinedInt on March 16, 2021, 09:34:22 pm ---The worst racket though was in automobile licensing restrictions where you had to take your car to a licensed state approved shop to get your annual sign off. The amount of racketeering I saw where parts that were fine were said to be bad and needed costly replacement "bribe" to the auto mechanic business in order to purchase your sign off on registration was absolutely disgusting.

--- End quote ---
That was also my experience with Australian auto mechanics falsely claiming that parts with extremely minor defects had to be replaced before they would sign off. They also went further than that by only pretending to replace the "faulty" parts and signing off anyway. They still took the money for "replacing" the parts though.

vk6zgo:

--- Quote from: srb1954 on March 24, 2021, 11:26:03 am ---
--- Quote from: GodIsRealUnless DefinedInt on March 16, 2021, 09:34:22 pm ---The worst racket though was in automobile licensing restrictions where you had to take your car to a licensed state approved shop to get your annual sign off. The amount of racketeering I saw where parts that were fine were said to be bad and needed costly replacement "bribe" to the auto mechanic business in order to purchase your sign off on registration was absolutely disgusting.

--- End quote ---
That was also my experience with Australian auto mechanics falsely claiming that parts with extremely minor defects had to be replaced before they would sign off. They also went further than that by only pretending to replace the "faulty" parts and signing off anyway. They still took the money for "replacing" the parts though.

--- End quote ---

In WA, we've never had that rule, & we haven't had a great epidemic of accidents from "non-roadworthy" vehicles.
A cop can pull you over if your car looks a bit rough, & do a quick check.

You may get a defect notice, requiring you to repair it yourself, or get the car repaired, then take it to an examination centre, where, on payment of a fee, they will check your car.
If it doesn't pass, they will list what is still wrong, so you can get that fixed.

The examiner & the  repair guy are not connected in any way.




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