Avoiding Burn Out

[calexanian]

For those of you who work in the electronics field. Who leave a bench at work, then get home to your own bench, and stare at the wall because your brain is mush.. How do you keep the personal project work flow moving without going nuts?   

[Hypernova]

Do it at work

[Gribo]

I play with my kid. He makes the mush go away.

[German_EE]

I find the nearest river then sit there for a couple of hours watching the boats go by. Having two cats at home helps as well.

Did the burnout thing two decades ago, not a fun time 

[N2IXK]

The work I do on my home bench is FAR different than my workday stuff.   I get my fill of modern electronics that you need to use a microscope to work on during work hours, so my hobby pursuits are largely "retro" stuff like restoring vintage gear, building tube amplifiers, playing around with boatanchor era ham radios, etc.

Sufficiently different technology that it reduces the burnout factor...

[nctnico]

Like others said: do other stuff. Fortunately I just shut down before getting a burn out. I *have* to keep calm otherwise I end up lying in bed for the biggest part of a week (this seems to be a family-illness).

[Fred27]

Definitely do other stuff. My work isn't electronics. That's why the hobby is.

[dfmischler]

Putting on the old bite suit and getting bit by a few dogs still takes my mind off everything else.  And they like it, too.

Doing different stuff at home and work helps, but instead of just changing chairs the physical activity makes a big difference to my state of mind.

[Kjelt]

Most important thing here is to learn by recognizing the symptoms/signals of your subconcious or body. Almost all the persons I talked to that had a burnout didn't see it coming BUT their relatives/colleagues did.
So if you don't recognize the signals/symptoms yet (which differ per person) ask the trusted persons around you that see you around once a month, two weeks if they want too warn you if they think you're not doing well, better a few false positives then no signal at all.

Remedies also differ per person but you want to do something that gives energy and makes you feel more positive.

[EEVblog]

I do this:

[marshallh]

Do other stuff tha isn't electronics. I get out and move around as much as possible

[dannyf]

How do you keep the personal project work flow moving without going nuts?

Make sure you enjoy it, either personal or job responsibilities.

If you don't, move on.

[sacherjj]

I've always been a software and hardware guy.  For years, my work job was 100% software so I did mostly hardware at home.  Now my job is more hardware and I find I'm doing more software at home. 

You need to have something that is a little different.  But if you enjoy your job and it is constantly changing, there is no problem.

[calexanian]

I work in a family business, where i am currently managing not only all of the new projects, but production. Since we are very small many of my functions are not duplicated.

[mtdoc]

I do this:

Common Dave - you're not supposed to bounce. It puts undue stress on the rap (abseil) anchors! 

Then again - I'm an old climber and climbers try to avoid rapping if possible....though I reckon I've done several tens of thousands of feet of it over the years.

[Kjelt]

I do this:

and this   

[lapm]

I quess i should consider myself lucky then.. i work at brewery and that docent involve doing electronics at all... So electronics, programming,etc are more hobby to me to give my brain something more challenging to do then press blinking button to reset machine and press another to start it again... 

But seriously if someone notices that there might be some burnout symptoms raising their heads, its time to do something about it... when you hit full blown burnout its going to take a lot of time to recover... Early symptoms are warnings signals that your reactor is about to overheat...

I have had to learn few things the hard way. And i don't recommend it. 

[HighVoltage]

We just had a documentary running on German TV "Schluss mit schnell" and they explained that this is a worldwide phenomenon.
For the German readers:
http://www.arte.tv/guide/de/048763-000/schluss-mit-schnell?autoplay=1

It is imperative that we take our out time.
I am self employed and I am keeping the balance between job and family by just taking some time off.
But then, it is hard to judge, if that is enough.

[sacherjj]

Common Dave - you're not supposed to bounce. It puts undue stress on the rap (abseil) anchors! 

Then again - I'm an old climber and climbers try to avoid rapping if possible....though I reckon I've done several tens of thousands of feet of it over the years.

But if you can't jump when rapping, then where is the fun?

[EEVblog]

Common Dave - you're not supposed to bounce. It puts undue stress on the rap (abseil) anchors! 

You clearly haven't seen the anchors at the top of Empress Falls!

[mtdoc]

Common Dave - you're not supposed to bounce. It puts undue stress on the rap (abseil) anchors! 

Then again - I'm an old climber and climbers try to avoid rapping if possible....though I reckon I've done several tens of thousands of feet of it over the years.

But if you can't jump when rapping, then where is the fun?

Rapping is not supposed to be fun - it's supposed to just get you safely back on the ground and it's statistically the most dangerous part of climbing/mountaineering.

But I get it - for canyoneering - which I've done a little of - it can be fun, especially if you have bomb proof anchors and a waterfall to play in.

Here's a pic from one of my few canyoneering trips. Rapping out of  Mystery Canyon into the Narrows - Zion National Park.

[free_electron]

Eventually you pull the plug. I did last monday. After 22 years messing around in the (highly refined) sandbox i called it quits.
I'm joining a small company that dabbles in electric cars as lead PCB Designer. Not sure you've heard of it : Tesla Motors.

[mtdoc]

I'm joining a small company that dabbles in electric cars as lead PCB Designer. Not sure you've heard of it : Tesla Motors.

Excellent!  You can help Dave get his Model S for review and Teardown Tuesday !

[SeanB]

Well done Vince, you will at least be able to make sure the motor drive is as efficient as possible, and will work under any conditions and fail safely.

[djacobow]

Rapping is not supposed to be fun - it's supposed to just get you safely back on the ground and it's statistically the most dangerous part of climbing/mountaineering.

But I get it - for canyoneering - which I've done a little of - it can be fun, especially if you have bomb proof anchors and a waterfall to play in.

Among roped climbing accidents, rappels are indeed a pretty major contributor of accidents. Most of those accidents, I'm guessing are of the rap off the end of your rope variety than the anchor failed variety.

RMRG did some good stats on all the accidents in Boulder County from 1998-2011. Check out the tables page 226. Looks like getting stuck on a rappel is pretty common, though I would categorize that as an accident so much as an incident.

http://www.rockymountainrescue.org/publications/2012_WEMJ_RMRG_Rock_Climb_Accidents.pdf
 

[mtdoc]

Among roped climbing accidents, rappels are indeed a pretty major contributor of accidents. Most of those accidents, I'm guessing are of the rap off the end of your rope variety than the anchor failed variety.

   

Yeah - rapping off the end of the rope is common but failed rap anchors is not unheard of. Unfortunately I have close friends who were involved in such an accident.

RMRG did some good stats on all the accidents in Boulder County from 1998-2011. Check out the tables page 226. Looks like getting stuck on a rappel is pretty common, though I would categorize that as an accident so much as an incident.

http://www.rockymountainrescue.org/publications/2012_WEMJ_RMRG_Rock_Climb_Accidents.pdf

Interestingly table 3 shows a comparison of the age distribution to Australians!  Looks like Australian 20-29 yr olds are just as accident prone as Americans of that age...

There's a saying " There are old climbers and bold climbers, but no old, bold climbers",,,

The American Alpine Club publishes it's annual Accidents in North American Mountaineering.  Interesting and educational .

One thing to be aware of whenever looking at these kinds of statistics: There is often a large group of accidents attributed to "climbing unroped".  A few of these may be skilled, experienced climbers who chose to "free solo" but most in this group aren't actually climbers at all - just inexperienced, usually young, Darwin award candidates who see a rock face or mountain peak and think " hey I can go up that"....

Back OT.  One way I deal with burn out of my day job (medicine) is to play with and  learn electronics in my free time!

[marshallh]

Eventually you pull the plug. I did last monday. After 22 years messing around in the (highly refined) sandbox i called it quits.
I'm joining a small company that dabbles in electric cars as lead PCB Designer. Not sure you've heard of it : Tesla Motors.

PCB pics

[alimirjamali]

Among roped climbing accidents, rappels are indeed a pretty major contributor of accidents. Most of those accidents, I'm guessing are of the rap off the end of your rope variety than the anchor failed variety.

When using double ropes for abseiling, unsure of the end, we tie the ends with a overhand knot or a figure 8 knot and secure one rope in the carabiner. This simple trick avoids surprise rap offs .

We are trained to not trust the fixed artificial anchors at tourist attractions or use it as just backup. Sorry Dave

To avoid burn outs, I do some woodworking.

[calexanian]

Eventually you pull the plug. I did last monday. After 22 years messing around in the (highly refined) sandbox i called it quits.
I'm joining a small company that dabbles in electric cars as lead PCB Designer. Not sure you've heard of it : Tesla Motors.

Congratulations.. Tesla has a great product. I got a chance to play with one when we had a promo demonstrator for the carcast podcast. Very nice vehicle.

[nuno]

Who leave a bench at work, then get home to your own bench, and stare at the wall because your brain is mush..

Maybe you already did burn out. Did you noticed a moment in time where you "suddenly" started being less worried about the work and pressure?

Rest, do some physical activities (a simple 20min walk at fast pace does wonders), don't stress yourself about not "being able" to do stuff at home, go see a movie, find other people who like tech stuff just to chat and share in person. It's a lot about "motivation".

Only way to avoid really is to stop when the load starts to feel too much for too long.

[ludzinc]

Eventually you pull the plug. I did last monday. After 22 years messing around in the (highly refined) sandbox i called it quits.
I'm joining a small company that dabbles in electric cars as lead PCB Designer. Not sure you've heard of it : Tesla Motors.

Game over.  Free_electron wins.

[EEVblog]

But I get it - for canyoneering - which I've done a little of - it can be fun, especially if you have bomb proof anchors and a waterfall to play in.

FYI, this is the anchor in Empress:
You could winch a truck off it:

One of only two officially installed by our National Parks people, so designed by committee

FYI, that's my mate Ian Knapp who tragically died in Claustral canyon on a 2m fixed rope hand-over-hand climb down.

[EEVblog]

Game over.  Free_electron wins.

Until he realises Tesla are a bit infamous for being a high pressure long hours work environment 
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla-Motors,-Inc/reviews

the employees call it "Stressla Motors"

http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129_P12.htm

But congrats to Vincent, an awesome career move

[mtdoc]

Dave,  Sorry about your mate.   Been there. It sucks.

alimirjamali - climbing in Iran? That's awesome!

FYI, this is the anchor in Empress:
You could winch a truck off it:

Wimps!  Real men rappel off of anchors like this.

[RobertoLG]

But I get it - for canyoneering - which I've done a little of - it can be fun, especially if you have bomb proof anchors and a waterfall to play in.

FYI, this is the anchor in Empress:
You could winch a truck off it:

One of only two officially installed by our National Parks people, so designed by committee

FYI, that's my mate Ian Knapp who tragically died in Claustral canyon on a 2m fixed rope hand-over-hand climb down.

you got some really beautiful places there

[alimirjamali]

FYI, that's my mate Ian Knapp who tragically died in Claustral canyon on a 2m fixed rope hand-over-hand climb down.

Nothing is worse than losing a mate you could trust at the other side of the rope. Sorry about that

alimirjamali - climbing in Iran? That's awesome!

Not as much as I used to (every weekend) - I could blame Youtube

Wimps!  Real men rappel off of anchors like this.

We had a talented climber in our group who always used multiple natural or non-invasive anchors to avoid damaging rocks and nature. Those anchors most other people consider dodgy. We lost him in a non-mountaineering related avalanche accident

Eventually you pull the plug. I did last monday. After 22 years messing around in the (highly refined) sandbox i called it quits.
I'm joining a small company that dabbles in electric cars as lead PCB Designer. Not sure you've heard of it : Tesla Motors.

Congratulations. Although I do not think we see Tesla cars in my country in near future (maybe never), I like the company

[free_electron]

Until he realises Tesla are a bit infamous for being a high pressure long hours work environment 
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla-Motors,-Inc/reviews

the employees call it "Stressla Motors"

http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129_P12.htm

i read those things as well. i can summarize them as follows :

Tesla can be a stressfull environment if :
- you are NOt a fast thinker
- are only interested in comfy chair and pushing a button all day long
- have trouble coming up with creative solutions.
- you can only think one step ahead at a time

I laughed reading that post where this old automotive dude claims they show no respect for the people with all the 'automotive' experience and skills. it reminded me of a scene from Men in Black I. The moment J enters the alien arrival hall for the first time and K states : Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... dick.

Anything you have done up till now is irellevant. it is all obsolete. Swept of the table. These machines only share 4 tires and a steering wheel with the 'old skool' car. Everythin else is totally different. So prepare to learn and get creative. Everything you know about cars does not apply to these ones.

These guys do not bounce idea's off the wall. They have a battery of gatling miniguns set to 6000RPM, shooting idea's and totally shredding the wall in the process. So much is clear after the interviews i did there.

I think i'm going to like it as i will be able to let creativity flow as opposed to be bogged down in paperwork , cut or zero budgets and 'anything is possible as long as it is free' ...

[HighVoltage]

I think i'm going to like it as i will be able to let creativity flow as opposed to be bogged down in paperwork , cut or zero budgets and 'anything is possible as long as it is free' ...

Sounds like really cool!
Congratulations.
May be you can give us an update from time to time, how it really is at Tesla Motors.

[EEVblog]

Vincent, do you have to move this job?

[Kjelt]

I wouldn't mind working 12 hrs days for 8hrs pay and even weekends if and only if:
- there is a long term reward plan like stock options, that if it the firm is going to be a huge success you profit from it and not only the upper mgt.
If you are expected to work 1,5x and paid for 1x then the stockoptions should be at least worth 1x (so at least a yearsalary per year).
And that is what I do not read in the reviews.

[Galenbo]

I laughed reading that post where this old automotive dude claims they show no respect for the people with all the 'automotive' experience and skills.

...Anything you have done up till now is irellevant. it is all obsolete. Swept of the table. These machines only share 4 tires and a steering wheel with the 'old skool' car. Everythin else is totally different...

Yes, everything is completely the same as a 1960 ies indoor electric forklift. O yes , they put some electronics in it. Like a 1970 Forklift then. Scares me every time again how uninformed all those newage inventors are.

The only thing left is to improve the capacity/kg and capacity/volume ratio of the batteries. Or invent some new "specs" that makes the same electric motor "more efficient"

And for the MBA guys: Develop some click-plug exchange battery pack that gives you full autonomy in 60 seconds, of course standardized, available everywhere, easy to pay and operatable by a noob.
 

[free_electron]

Vincent, do you have to move this job?

Nope. It only adds 15 mins to my commute (one way), but i drop the car keys at the valet in the morning and pick em up in the evening. The car is fully charged.

Yes, they have actually two valets shuffling employees (and visitors) cars through the charging stations. Wrap your mind around that one.

I'm not at liberty to spill a lot of details, but, tesla DOES pay overtime even for engineers !  Plus much more that you expect from a silicon valley startup (they still run in startup mode)

From what i see in those sourpusses posting : they essentially complain about startup mode. To bad. It ain't a cut and dried nine to five  buttonpusher company. Those are (were) in detroit.

[free_electron]

Yes, everything is completely the same as a 1960 ies indoor electric forklift. O yes , they put some electronics in it. Like a 1970 Forklift then. Scares me every time again how uninformed all those newage inventors are.

my my , hoe uninformed you are...

- Lead acid vs lithium-cobalt
- Dc motor vs three phase induction motor plus associated inverter
- overnight charging vs 45 minute supercharger
- Snail pace forklift vs comfortable cruiser that mops the floor with many supercars (0..100km/h in 4.2 second. Kiss your porsche goodbye.

You know that thing that sometimes happens at traffic lights when two sportscars are side by side and , testosteron flows and one driver looks at the other , goes vroom vroom and then both anxiously wait for the light to turn green ?
I never get that.  When in the third lane a Tesla pulls up they are all of a sudden very quit and stare eyes front .. " oh shit it's one of those electrics . Don't look at it, make no eye contact, foot of the throttle,  fight the urge to go vroom vroom because i'll get my tailpipe , gearbox and motorblock handed to me and be the laughing stock of all other drivers around me. They'll go: Look at the yuppie with the flashy porsche, he got his butt kicked by a soupmixer with a battery pack"

- Regeneration
 And the battery pack is click plug swappable. 90 seconds, can be done by a noob. Drive up , wait 90 seconds , drive away. You don't even get out of the car.

So what are you blabbering about ? 1960 forklift me arse

[djacobow]

Interestingly table 3 shows a comparison of the age distribution to Australians!  Looks like Australian 20-29 yr olds are just as accident prone as Americans of that age...

There's a saying " There are old climbers and bold climbers, but no old, bold climbers",,,

Yeah, I thought the comparisons with Australians were interesting. I imagine we have a much higher proportion of couch potatoes, but among folks who actually go outside, pretty similar in most ways.

One thing to be aware of whenever looking at these kinds of statistics: There is often a large group of accidents attributed to "climbing unroped".  A few of these may be skilled, experienced climbers who chose to "free solo" but most in this group aren't actually climbers at all - just inexperienced, usually young, Darwin award candidates who see a rock face or mountain peak and think " hey I can go up that"....

I'm sure you're right, but experienced solo free climbers die pretty predictably, too. These guys tend not to make it to age 40. I have a cool video of a bunch of amazing unroped climbers doing they're thing. I think by the time the DVD made it to press, 1/3 were dead.

Anyway, obligatory OT, all this talk of rappelling and climbing reminds me that those activities easily clear your mind of all distractions. If an electronics problem was twirling around in your noggin for days, it will be gone pretty quickly once you get on a route that's close to (or beyond) your capability. It's very mentally cleansing that way.

Another mentally cleansing activity I might recommend if you can swing it, is learning to fly. I have a private pilot license and instrument rating. When I was learning I'd show up at the airport full of normal daily worries and by the time my lesson was done my mind was just calm and blank. It requires a lot of focus, particularly the instrument stuff. Sadly, once you get proficient the effect wears off. The cleansing comes from the mental workload of learning. Which is why I want to get a commercial license, learn acrobatics, learn to fly gliders....

[mtdoc]

Anyway, obligatory OT, all this talk of rappelling and climbing reminds me that those activities easily clear your mind of all distractions. If an electronics problem was twirling around in your noggin for days, it will be gone pretty quickly once you get on a route that's close to (or beyond) your capability. It's very mentally cleansing that way.

You're right. Nothing like being 20 feet out from sketchy pro and at your limits to clear the mind! 

I've noticed there seems to be a disproportionate number of engineers and scientists among climbers.  I wonder why?

[Galenbo]

So what are you blabbering about ? 1960 forklift me arse

Regeneration you say? Sorry since the beginning of the ninetees they all also have AC motors with that.

What I ment, is that one way you look denigrating to the "old automotion dude", while on the other hand you are talking as if you are going to invent something spectacularry new there.

Sorry, everything's already there.

I keep the same conclusion: Work has to be done in the battery field, your company buys it as lithium-cobalt today, next year we'll have something else, other name, with other pro and contras, and here and there one percent difference.

And the battery pack is click plug swappable. 90 seconds, can be done by a noob. Drive up , wait 90 seconds , drive away. You don't even get out of the car.

I'm happy about this. Hope it can be standardized so we get swap-stations in every town.

[nctnico]

Climbing sounds pretty dangerous. Every now and then I take my bicycle for a spin and end up in a place with a scenery like this:


@free_electron: Concrats with the new job. I hope you can move on to a more interesting position than just fighting with electronics and mechanical engineers trying to make components fit on a PCB quickly  BTW if you meet Elon can you ask him to stop stalking me with the Model-S? He doesn't have to show one to me everytime I drive my own car.

[mtdoc]

Climbing sounds pretty dangerous. Every now and then I take my bicycle for a spin and end up in a place with a scenery like this:

I don't know. Some of those steers look pretty mean...  

Nice scenery though!

[nctnico]

There is a lot of water in between.

[hans]

Sorry to derail the interesting discussion, but getting back to the OP:

For those of you who work in the electronics field. Who leave a bench at work, then get home to your own bench, and stare at the wall because your brain is mush.. How do you keep the personal project work flow moving without going nuts?   

I face the same problem, but probably under slightly varying circumstances. Due to a long period of being ill I am glad to get out the door again to something (be it work), but at the same time the work I have chosen is a hard compromise between ease of access (company culture / travel / flexible possibilities) in trade of level of work (which is uncertain how that will develop, very likely for the worse).

I think it's hard to force yourself to "keep" a flow. I've got projects that I've started last summer and still need firmware to be completed. I'm not worried at all, I am glad at the point where they are at and what I got back from it as an experience.
In some way my hobby projects differ from work in that in hobby I want try new stuff and see what it does/works, but at work I just want to make stuff that works, and with the least amount of trouble/effort please.

Like others said, it's good to know when to stop instead of pushing yourself. I've practically enforced myself to close all CAD and IDE's at the clock of 9PM (if not earlier). If I don't it's very likely it will affect sleep or a clean state of mind, so instead I will spend the 3 hours browsing the internet, playing games, watching series/movies, or reviewing music for my ever expanding collection.


In contrast when I still went to college I had a relatively long commute which I only now realize didn't do that bad. I had a 1,5 hour commute to my college and 1,5 hours back. That sounds like an awful lot of time wasted each day (3 hours); however I "kept up" with short nights (6 hours) which I sort-of extended on the commute to college. On the way back however I have never grabbed homework or the laptop to keep on working; instead I've spent the time losing focus for some time. I think it worked like a "brain powernap" as I was very often able to do something for my own hobby in the evenings.

It could also be that I enjoyed college more than I do work now, and at college I was already heavily involved in my own projects more than anything else. At the moment I also have a 15 minute commute time, which is way to short to lose focus.
I notice that an easy walk for an hour (which happens to speed up my revalidation process) helps a lot as well.

[free_electron]

You need to pull the plug from time to time. I take a yearly 3 week break to go scubadiving.
No phone, no electronics. I carry a laptop to look at the pictures and video i shoot.

[nctnico]

http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129_P12.htm

I laughed reading that post where this old automotive dude claims they show no respect for the people with all the 'automotive' experience and skills. it reminded me of a scene from Men in Black I. The moment J enters the alien arrival hall for the first time and K states : Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... dick.

Starting allover trying to re-invent a better wheel may sound like fun but it is a rather futile and frustrating excersize. There is a lot more to making a car than putting 4 wheels and a steer onto a metal box. I read the comment too and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've seen the Model-S chassis at the local Tesla store and it is technically way behind the car bodies European and Asian car makers build. And that is just the chassis! The electrical system of a car is another major problem area which took car manufacturers decades to get it right (=very reliable and cheap). There is so many knowledge available from people laid off in Detroit that it is outright stupid not to use that knowledge. Not putting a bar behind the front bumper to take care of depris on the road is one clear example of a design fail by Tesla. It is one of the typical things an experienced car designer will add to a design without thinking twice.

What Tesla is doing is much like the Chinese trying to build test equipment. They fail a lot but eventually (after 15 years or so) they get it right and could start selling main stream. Without help I suspect Tesla needs at least 10 years to design 2 or 3 models before their cars come close to European and Asian cars. And then it remains to be seen whether a car made by Tesla lasts at least 20 years (which is the lowest acceptable expected lifetime of a car in Europe due to resell/trade-in value).

[wagon]

Burn out you say?  I fix electronic stuff, and I go back to the workshop on weekends sometimes to do my own stuff, for fun.  I joined a rural fire brigade so I can indulge the pyromaniac side of my personality, learn more stuff, serve the community and meet people I wouldn't normally meet day to day.  I lit the fire below, it was a big pile of crap in a paddock.

[calexanian]

Burn out you say?  I fix electronic stuff, and I go back to the workshop on weekends sometimes to do my own stuff, for fun.  I joined a rural fire brigade so I can indulge the pyromaniac side of my personality, learn more stuff, serve the community and meet people I wouldn't normally meet day to day.  I lit the fire below, it was a big pile of crap in a paddock.

I have never taken more than a 5 day work week off in my life! Once again, the pains of being in a family business with only 7 real employees.

[wagon]

Burn out you say?  I fix electronic stuff, and I go back to the workshop on weekends sometimes to do my own stuff, for fun.  I joined a rural fire brigade so I can indulge the pyromaniac side of my personality, learn more stuff, serve the community and meet people I wouldn't normally meet day to day.  I lit the fire below, it was a big pile of crap in a paddock.

I have never taken more than a 5 day work week off in my life! Once again, the pains of being in a family business with only 7 real employees.

I'm the fulltime tech, my wife pushed around paper when she can. It can be a hassle.

[free_electron]

http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129_P12.htm

I laughed reading that post where this old automotive dude claims they show no respect for the people with all the 'automotive' experience and skills. it reminded me of a scene from Men in Black I. The moment J enters the alien arrival hall for the first time and K states : Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... dick.

Starting allover trying to re-invent a better wheel may sound like fun but it is a rather futile and frustrating excersize. There is a lot more to making a car than putting 4 wheels and a steer onto a metal box. I read the comment too and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've seen the Model-S chassis at the local Tesla store and it is technically way behind the car bodies European and Asian car makers build. And that is just the chassis! The electrical system of a car is another major problem area which took car manufacturers decades to get it right (=very reliable and cheap). There is so many knowledge available from people laid off in Detroit that it is outright stupid not to use that knowledge. Not putting a bar behind the front bumper to take care of depris on the road is one clear example of a design fail by Tesla. It is one of the typical things an experienced car designer will add to a design without thinking twice.

What Tesla is doing is much like the Chinese trying to build test equipment. They fail a lot but eventually (after 15 years or so) they get it right and could start selling main stream. Without help I suspect Tesla needs at least 10 years to design 2 or 3 models before their cars come close to European and Asian cars. And then it remains to be seen whether a car made by Tesla lasts at least 20 years (which is the lowest acceptable expected lifetime of a car in Europe due to resell/trade-in value).

Nonsense. The tesla chassis is much more advanced. Keep in mind that what you see in the store is only the 'skate'. A lot of the cross members that give the car rigidity are not there. These are part of the glider.
The tesla is the only car in the world that got 5stars in every single safety test. Not even volvos get that. The roof collapse test even destroyed the test machine, and they could not get the car to roll.
Tesla is using construction techniques for the aluminum body that are now just beginning to be employed by major car makers.

There have been numerous collisions between big SUV and Tesla's where the SUV is totally shredded and the tesla driver walks away without even a scratch. In a sideswipe accident the residual space between the door and person is five times larger than in a volvo. Go on youtube. There is a dshboard camera recording of a tesla being hit by a BMW x5 that came at 60mph from the left. It impacts just in front of the driver side front wheel. The BMw was completely demolished by the aluminum struts that run lengthwise. The tesla was repaired. Front fender and a new front fashia. No other damage. The BMw lost two wheels , a door and half of its nose. There was a debris trail overr 100 meter long.

As for the car electronics: car makers don't make their own electronics. They buy it from delco, delphi, valeo, bosh ,sagem, magneti maerlli and many others. Nav systems come from alpine and blaupunkt or other oem. Car stereos same. Not a single car maker designs electronics. So its all stuff that doesnt really work together. Tesla makes everything themselves. It's all in house, including asic design.

So i stand by the statement that the know-how from detroit is useless for this kind of vehicle. They may be specialists in combustion motors and gearboxes and automatic transmissions and plenty of other very complicated things, but this car doesn't use any of those things. So they , and the accompanying know how, are obsolete.

Even when it comes to aerodynamics of the car : the tesla had the lowest drag coefficient of any production car at time of introduction. So far for the classic car engineers that designed the butt ugly honda insight and toyota prius (first gens) and plenty other whacky electric car designs because of 'aerodynamics'...  Tesla has proven that a car can be beautiful, look 'normal' and have top notch aerodynamics.

Yes the old skool guys sit on a ton of know how and knowledge, but it does not apply to this kind of vehicle ! So it is for all means and purposes, obsolete know-how.

[miguelvp]

The original Tesla chassis was the Lotus Elise one.

Edit: Aircraft based aluminum bonding frame weighting 150 lbs (68 kilos) and safe

[Rerouter]

Depends On the job a bit then i guess, my company only has 3 hands on workers, 1 or which has 1 day a week off for training, and i am soon to be off for a 2-3 week holiday, with us we can ramp things down if we know we will be short on staff,

Still for myself i have recently been burnt out to buggery after 3 straight weeks of on site maintenance for sites that are hundreds of km away from work / home, mainly the stress from that shred of doubt that you have forgotten something very important which chewed up every free thinking moment.. (I had forgotten something, but it turned out not to matter in the slightest as that job was cancelled)

I've been unwinding by group cycling, going out with friends / family etc, stuff that forces you to think socially not technically, but i will admit i am not quite there yet, so will be relying on my holiday to get my head screwed on right,

[ivaylo]

So you are a Tesla fanboy who works at Tesla. Congratulations...

I have never taken more than a 5 day work week off in my life! Once again, the pains of being in a family business with only 7 real employees.

I think this is a big part of it. Hats off to people who manage to run their own or family business, but the few people I know who do that haven't taken a trip in years - no one to mind the shop they say...

[Artlav]

There is a dshboard camera recording of a tesla being hit by a BMW x5 that came at 60mph from the left.

Do you have a link for it? I can't seem to google it up.

[nctnico]

http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Tesla-Motors-Reviews-E43129_P12.htm

I laughed reading that post where this old automotive dude claims they show no respect for the people with all the 'automotive' experience and skills. it reminded me of a scene from Men in Black I. The moment J enters the alien arrival hall for the first time and K states : Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... dick.

Starting allover trying to re-invent a better wheel may sound like fun but it is a rather futile and frustrating excersize. There is a lot more to making a car than putting 4 wheels and a steer onto a metal box. I read the comment too and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've seen the Model-S chassis at the local Tesla store and it is technically way behind the car bodies European and Asian car makers build. And that is

What Tesla is doing is much like the Chinese trying to build test equipment. They fail a lot but eventually (after 15 years or so) they get it right and could start selling main stream. Without help I suspect Tesla needs at least 10 years to design 2 or 3 models before their cars come close to European and Asian cars. And then it remains to be seen whether a car made by Tesla lasts at least 20 years (which is the lowest acceptable expected lifetime of a car in Europe due to resell/trade-in value).

Nonsense. The tesla chassis is much more advanced. Keep in mind that what you see in the store is only the 'skate'. A lot of the cross

There have been numerous collisions between big SUV and Tesla's where the SUV is totally shredded and the tesla driver walks away without even a scratch. In a sideswipe accident the residual space between the door and person is five times larger than in a volvo. Go on

Another design fail. The body of a car is meant to deform in order to absorb the energy of an impact otherwise all that energy will be coupled into the people in the car causing all kinds of injuires (including neck injuries like whiplash). Look at how a formula 1 car crashes. The entire car falls apart wile absorbing the energy from the crash. Afterwards the driver gets out of the cockpit and walks away.

BTW: Volvo = Ford (for a long time).

[BBQ]

Spend some time in a burn in room  (sauna).

Wish i had one.

[calexanian]

About the tesla S. I have driven one. I have to say it really is a great car. Handling wise I would put it up against any BMW 5 or 7 series and the Audi A6 any day. Good and stiff but with a comfortable ride. Tons of luggage room. We actually did a harbor freight and Home Depot run with it. No problems. We did not get a chance to take it out for some hot laps, but just driving it around town and on the highway we got the idea. It really is a good vehicle.

[Precipice]

So you are a Tesla fanboy who works at Tesla. Congratulations...

Far better than working at a company you despise! (especially if we're still talking about avoiding burnout, a job you love takes a lot less out of you than a job you hate. Most of the time...)

Congrats on the new job anyway, have fun!

[ivaylo]

So you are a Tesla fanboy who works at Tesla. Congratulations...

Far better than working at a company you despise! (especially if we're still talking about avoiding burnout, a job you love takes a lot less out of you than a job you hate. Most of the time...)

Fanboys are special. I know a few Apple fanboys who work there and who would argue no end that Steve Jobs' fart is (was) the best fart in the world. Now I am hearing the same about the Musk guy. Still haven't determined if that adds or removes stress from your work 

[nctnico]

So you are a Tesla fanboy who works at Tesla. Congratulations...

Far better than working at a company you despise! (especially if we're still talking about avoiding burnout, a job you love takes a lot less out of you than a job you hate. Most of the time...)

OTOH you can put way too much time in a job you like. Sometimes to discover your hard work isn't valued at all and other times to discover that your hard work has made you the goto-guy for particular technical problems.

In my experience it is hard to know in advance whether a job stays interesting in the long run. Sometimes companies shift focus causing the work to change or the work gets dull real quick. Other times many promises are made on carreer advancement but none kept. The nicest place I have worked so far went bankcrupt 

[VK3DRB]

True believers in electronics don't get burned out.

[alimirjamali]

True believers in electronics don't get burned out.

Yes Master

[Towger]

Now I am hearing the same about the Musk guy. Still haven't determined if that adds or removes stress from your work 

The Musk guy reminds me of the Deloren guy, before his downfall.

So Vincent, have you come to the realisation that storing data on spinning disks is going the way of the vacuum tube?

[blackfin76]

Another design fail. The body of a car is meant to deform in order to absorb the energy of an impact otherwise all that energy will be coupled into the people in the car causing all kinds of injuires (including neck injuries like whiplash). Look at how a formula 1 car crashes. The entire car falls apart wile absorbing the energy from the crash. Afterwards the driver gets out of the cockpit and walks away.

BTW: Volvo = Ford (for a long time).

FE describes the way Tesla is going to kill everyone else who isn't driving a Tesla 

Indeed, to lower the peak G force it is an necessaty to absorb as much energy by deforming the chassis. It's not a sign of good vehicle safety engineering to maintain structural integrity. this is only required for the structure that holds the valuable cargo called human beings.