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Rick Law:

--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 25, 2023, 12:20:18 am ---Could've just as well been the Boston Molasses Party I suppose.

I mean, it was, just not in relation to any national or international relationships.

As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread... yeah, right, whatever.  The simple fact is all countries have committed terrible atrocities.  Against their neighbors, against their ("their" in geographic terms) prior inhabitants, against their own (current, naturalized) inhabitants, against remote enemies, anything.  Some worse than others perhaps, but ranking them seems a perverse activity, at best distracting from the fact that it's happened (or happening).  Likewise, all countries can credit themselves with numerous technical, artistic, spiritual, whatever achievements; amazingly enough, countries are complex (pseudo-?)entities.

Now, there are two readings a person will take away from this:
1. "BoTh SiDeS", everyone else does it so what does it matter that we did / are doing it, and what does it matter trying to prevent others from doing it?  Even if I could do anything about it, I still don't care.  Turn on the television, I want to see how my football team is doing.

Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us), and that we can better ourselves, to rise above that violent streak and treat one another with love and respect no matter who we are, or where we are from; and to monitor such events as (or before) they unfold, and hold our leaders accountable to reduce or eliminate such acts; and better research and understand why and how such events come to be: to understand systemic racism; cycles of poverty, crime and violence; to understand colonialism and imperialism, and their use of these behaviors and conditions as tools, to control and mold the populations they dominate; and so on.

And, in turn, if not preventing them from happening, then at least gaining and understanding of the economic forces (read: aristocrats, oligarchs, capitalists, corporations; take your pick) that drive these circumstances.  Which, as far as I know, on a sufficiently grand (international) scale, can always be reduced to this as an explanation; the only limitation is that historical (or even current day) evidence may not always be available to prove it.  Controlling these agents, has always been a challenge; since they seek to control us (in turn, our wealth), it's only ever at best been a constant struggle, and at worst an utter defeat.

Tim

--- End quote ---

Well put, Tim.  Can't agree with you more.  What was written in your post even apply to a person to some extend.  We all have some past doings we are not proud of.  I'm sure we all stepped on somebody sometime, perhaps even knowingly so.  The important thing is, as we grow, we hope we are a better person today than we were yesterday.  We hope we made a positive difference today and hope we improved the balance of our "good we've done" vs "bad we've done" in sum total.

A word on "discovery."  It is a "relative" term relating to "for whom the discovery was made".  For example, in a statement to my family: "I discovered this restaurant with good Sunday Brunch, let's go there next Sunday."  It is not as if no one knows the restaurant exist, it is me and my family didn't know about it.  The "discovery" is I "discovered" it for my family.  Now my family  know a place for Sunday Brunch.  No different than Columbus discovered America (for the sponsors of his trip) or Marco Polo discovered the Great Wall of China (for the people whom he told).

magic:

--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 25, 2023, 12:20:18 am ---Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us)

--- End quote ---
I like this.

It's always that damn sizable minority. If only we could get rid of them, somehow... :-DD
T3sl4co1l:
I don't reject the possibility that at least a minority of us (if not a majority, which indeed is probably overstating it :P ) are capable of, well, lightness to put it overly simply; alas, it so happens that


--- Quote from: magic on March 25, 2023, 06:58:44 pm ---It's always that damn sizable minority. If only we could get rid of them, somehow... :-DD

--- End quote ---

trying to do this, makes you one of them.  So, that's a non-solution. ;)

Tim
m k:
Darkness exist because it's heavier, obviously, why else light is called light.
And night is dark simply because light drifts away.

Also, there are no darkness in bright people, simply because darkness drains out.
PlainName:

--- Quote ---As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread...
--- End quote ---

Aren't you taking that a bit seriously? Apart from the initial jibe, which followed the usual form from that poster, the rest seems to me to be reasonably unserious top trumps or whatever game you call it. I don't see anyone likely to fall out with anyone else over this, or take offense, or start a fatwa or whatever.

Nationalist pride is nothing unusual or to be ashamed of. Abusing it is a problem, but the dorks that would do that would use something else if it wasn't this, and I don't see any of those sorts in this thread.
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