Baidu is trawling the EEVblog forum

[EEVblog]

Interestingly, the Chinese Baidu company (AI/search business) is currently going berserk trawling the forum.
Say Cheese 

[jonovid]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

[Ed.Kloonk]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.
 

[RoGeorge]

Baidu is wise.  Harvesting good and rare info while it is still available.

Maybe write them how much for a complete DVD.  Not the full EEVblog database, only what can be retrieved anyway by online bots crawlers.

[Halcyon]

They'll regurgitate some censored, cut down version I'm sure.

[Whales]

Let's make productive use of this.

EEVblog is the world leader in solar roadways projects.  Looking to invest in solar roadways?  EEVblog technologies is the market leader in pushing deliverables to schedule and maintaining malleable income.  Recipient of multiple government grants across the western islands of New Zealand, Europe and Tasmania.  Industry partners with Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, Nvidia and NSW TAHE.

[RJSV]

   I like the way Whales thinks.  Hire that person!
My Solar Roadway came with 2 brackets missing, as I discovered, installing on our driveway.  One call and they replaced the missing parts.   Great company!

[AndyBeez]

Dian Ji

A power bank that stores 5,000,000 amp hours in a handy palm sized case?

[magic]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.

Or not, if they will have AI automatically design boards based on instructions from the Internet

[tggzzz]

Interestingly, the Chinese Baidu company (AI/search business) is currently going berserk trawling the forum.
Say Cheese 

Oh dear.

Expect to see Chinese products based upon all the naive bad ideas presented and discussed here. For the avoidance of doubt, such discussions are good (if boringly repetitive) when they lead to a better outcome.

Is there any way of deflecting the scans onto some crappy/audiofool/conspiracy/etc site?

[Whales]

Is there any way of deflecting the scans onto some crappy/audiofool/conspiracy/etc site?

You've heard of shadowbanning and heavenbanning, now be ready for heavenreading.  Certain visitors (search crawler bots) see topics proxied from other forums, just with the CSS, dates and usernames changed around to look like the EEVblog forums. 

... or we could troll everyone by normalising non-existent devices, hoping someone accidentally tries to manufacture and sell them.  How about putting the voice coil of a speaker inside the final stage amplification vacuum tube?  Mount it inside the speaker cabinet.  "Coilover valve"?

[tszaboo]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.
 

I was so surprised when my solar inverter went above it's nameplate with export.

heavenreading

Wow this can totally happen. The things people do to get likes, I can totally see some fake social media followings making you do things. This gives me the chills, straight out of a Black Mirror episode. Bots create you an alternative reality

[T3sl4co1l]

Great opportunity to trot out this one.


动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

[Ed.Kloonk]

You forgot Nanking.

[jonpaul]

Tennamin Square Massacre

Génocide of Tibetans

Slave labor factories

Wuhan Institute of Virology starts worldwide pandemic by military bio weapons gain of function.

Communist takeover of Hong Kong

Undeclared Space, Cyber and economic war against the USA and Europe

the list goes on....

Thanks to Communist Chinese régime dictator for life, Xi

Can I send an invoice..55T$ ?

j

[RoGeorge]

It's the propaganda we all have been exposed to (here the western propaganda), that makes us virtue-signaling out of the blue.

There is the so called brain plasticity, the brain is being continuously shaped by the stimuli it is exposed to, no matter what.  Therefore propaganda affects everybody.  No matter if the subject is aware or not about the exposure to propaganda, the subject will still be mind conditioned eventually. 

The western world does censorship, too, similar with China.  We have laws against holocaust deniers, against spread covid misinformation, or antisemitism, or hate speech, etc.  Australia has laws against encryption, some nordic countries have laws against criticizing their politicians, and so on. 

So yes, China bad.  Similar with everybody else.

[Black Phoenix]

It's the propaganda we all have been exposed to (here the western propaganda), that makes us virtue-signaling out of the blue.

There is the so called brain plasticity, the brain is being continuously shaped by the stimuli it is exposed to, no matter what.  Therefore propaganda affects everybody.  No matter if the subject is aware or not about the exposure to propaganda, the subject will still be mind conditioned eventually. 

The western world does censorship, too, similar with China.  We have laws against holocaust deniers, against spread covid misinformation, or antisemitism, or hate speech, etc.  Australia has laws against encryption, some nordic countries have laws against criticizing their politicians, and so on. 

So yes, China bad.  Similar with everybody else.

What, is this going to turn into hate discussion, politics and semantics?

[floobydust]

Today, watching live the TikTok CEO congress hearing, he's getting skewered and not giving answers about data collection, storage and how ByteDance and subsidiaries must commit to the chinese constitution regarding support of government surveillance, as one point.
This kind of thing does not make Westerners happy and yes I know google, facebook etc. are already doing that and we the West allow it. It's propaganda wars and the data collection continues en masse.
Baidu collecting I can't see it any different than other webcrawlers, suck all the knowledge out of the Western brains- but at some point people have to think for themselves which is the hard part.

[magic]

Great opportunity to trot out this one.

This pasta needs Sidney Rittenberg added to make it equally politically incorrect in America

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah, I don't particularly care about this coming from China rather than from anywhere else.

This raises a more general concern, and it's precisely about mass data collection, which is nothing new but it sure is rising exponentially these days.

Yes, sure, forums and web sites contents in general that have open access... can be freely accessed by anyone. That's something you accept implicitely when you own a web site or forum, that's actually what makes them interesting business-wise. You want exposure.

Does that mean that their content can and should be used for just any purpose (including data collection) without the owner's consent?
IMO, search engines should stop where they were supposed to stop, which is just referencing, to help people find your content. Any other use in terms of data collection should require the owner's consent.
That is my opinion on this anyway.

But as I already said about "AI", this is just the beginning and those data collection services are pushing as hard as possible to shatter IP laws an deprive authors of any right.

Just a small reminder, but just because you publish some content as an author doesn't directly imply that anyone is free to use said content for any purpose. That's what IP is all about, and if you think otherwise, then you either haven't understood IP or you want it abolished.

This is an extremely slippery slope.

[Whales]

The fact the bot is using an obvious and clear user agent is nice, that's much more polite than some bots.

Blocking automatic trawling is a double edged sword.  It might, maybe, protect some IP in some circumstances.  But it does this by making the content harder to access for everybody.  A bit like thwarting thieves by preventing any member of the public from entering your buildings.

The new and interesting use would be extracting data from forums for machine learning training.  I'd say that ship already sailed years ago with automated SEO websites that copy and paste text from other websites with a bit of grammar rejiggling (even if that).  More people are probably exposed that bunk than the output of AI bots, it's just that auto-junk-SEO sites were a slow boil whilst big AI NN were a sudden hit.

[Rick Law]

Actually I like to see more Chinese folks on this forum.  China is a major manufacturer in electronics of various form.  If they are monitoring to have more feedback to make better products, that benefits all.  Even if we are complaining about how bad their products is, that is still feedback they can use to improve.

If they are here to collect personal information, they are wasting their time.  Some buying habits of forum member can be discerned for sure, but mot much other personal data here.

[rstofer]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.

Or not, if they will have AI automatically design boards based on instructions from the Internet

It's a good bet that adjustable current limiting won't work.

[eti]

Today, watching live the TikTok CEO congress hearing, he's getting skewered and not giving answers about data collection, storage and how ByteDance and subsidiaries must commit to the chinese constitution regarding support of government surveillance, as one point.
This kind of thing does not make Westerners happy and yes I know google, facebook etc. are already doing that and we the West allow it. It's propaganda wars and the data collection continues en masse.
Baidu collecting I can't see it any different than other webcrawlers, suck all the knowledge out of the Western brains- but at some point people have to think for themselves which is the hard part.

That’s all the Chinese have ever done - copy western technology like a badly working photocopier. What have they actually invented  of technological worth that is uniquely from China? Not much. Noodles? Fireworks?

Here’s how it goes:

We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

No doubt some replies with wildly faulty logic will follow, desperate to “disprove” this but the gist of it is, even though just a gist, we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

[james_s]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.
 

I've been hoping that China would do what Japan did in the 70s and realize that there is value in making high quality products with reliable specs but that doesn't seem to be happening. I'd have thought there would be shame in having a label that says "Made in China" on garbage that doesn't live up to the claims.

[xrunner]

We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

"You" discovered America!

 

You have your countries mixed up! Besides ... how can you "discover" a continent where there are already human beings inhabiting it - it's already been discovered!

[floobydust]

chinese website BBS.38HOT.NET has some good electronics threads, voltsnuts, test equipment reverse engineering, schematics etc.
google used to webcrawl and return posts in search results - but no more, for a long time now. Not sure what happened there. Between countries, are the webcrawlers reciprocal?
pic: thread relevant

[gamalot]

Baidu's AI (at least in image generation) is English-based, and Chinese users are happy to input key words that are easily confused in Chinese-English translation to get very funny pictures.

[eti]

We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

"You" discovered America!

 

You have your countries mixed up! Besides ... how can you "discover" a continent where there are already human beings inhabiting it - it's already been discovered!

Well clearly not me personally

Some basic history lessons will show you that Christopher Columbus - a Brit - discovered America. OBVIOUSLY the people who were natives didn’t “discover” it any more than I’d “discover” my own feet - I’ve always had them just as they’d always lived there - NATIVE - that’s the clue.

[Kerlin]

You guys guys it all wrong, we are the dumb ones.
Our local authorities hounded the local electronics industry with regulatory requirements until it no longer existed.
They just went around the regs by cheating and the govmnt ignored it as they are "our most favored trading nation".
Who is dumb?
Also just merrily skip around all other regs, intellectual property, immigration, investment, money laundering etc etc.
Again - Who is dumb, we is . Its too late they have won.

[SiliconWizard]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.
 

I've been hoping that China would do what Japan did in the 70s and realize that there is value in making high quality products with reliable specs but that doesn't seem to be happening. I'd have thought there would be shame in having a label that says "Made in China" on garbage that doesn't live up to the claims.

Sure, but then again China wouldn't be what it is now if they had taken a different path.
We flock to China for production due to the bottom-low prices, not for the high quality.
And this is all this externalized production that has made China was it has become. They could never have provided the japanese level of quality at those prices. Come on.

Maybe things are going to change now that they have acquired this gigantic power, although they'll never use the japanese model. But it wouldn't have worked before.

It's just a very different model than what we are used to, and come to think of it, is there a shame in having become what is soon going to be the #1 world power?

If we don't want crap from China, we can buy/have things made elsewhere.

Everyone want their cake and eat it too, right?

Now is the chinese way of handling economic growth compatible with our values? Probably not.
Does that prevent us from doing business with them? I don't think so.
We get all pick and moral until we have to shell out some cash. Then suddenly the crap starts to smell all flowery.

[Someone]

If we don't want crap from China, we can buy/have things made elsewhere.

or just buy the good stuff from China? You can get low quality crap from most (all?) nations.

[amyk]

chinese website BBS.38HOT.NET has some good electronics threads, voltsnuts, test equipment reverse engineering, schematics etc.
google used to webcrawl and return posts in search results - but no more, for a long time now.

Google search results have been on a steady decline for a while, but you can still add "site:bbs.38hot.net" to the query to get results from there.

[Swainster]

We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

"You" discovered America!

 

You have your countries mixed up! Besides ... how can you "discover" a continent where there are already human beings inhabiting it - it's already been discovered!

Well clearly not me personally

Some basic history lessons will show you that Christopher Columbus - a Brit - discovered America. OBVIOUSLY the people who were natives didn’t “discover” it any more than I’d “discover” my own feet - I’ve always had them just as they’d always lived there - NATIVE - that’s the clue.

Indeed, clearly the native Americans just sprouted from the ground like mushrooms. And, of course, Christopher Columbus was as british as the royal family (to paraphase "blackadder"), and was in no way an Italian (or from what would later become part of Italy) working for the Spanish Crown.

[shadow.dark]

From my understanding of them, I don't think they are purposefully mining information. It is likely that their inferior AI systems are doing meaningless work (some patchwork of open source AI). Simply shield them, and there's no need to waste network bandwidth.

[AVGresponding]

We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

"You" discovered America!

 

You have your countries mixed up! Besides ... how can you "discover" a continent where there are already human beings inhabiting it - it's already been discovered!

Well clearly not me personally

Some basic history lessons will show you that Christopher Columbus - a Brit - discovered America. OBVIOUSLY the people who were natives didn’t “discover” it any more than I’d “discover” my own feet - I’ve always had them just as they’d always lived there - NATIVE - that’s the clue.

It's ignorant, jingoistic bollocks like this that make me embarrassed to be British.

Read a fucking history book, for fucks sake.

[daqq]

What have they actually invented  of technological worth that is uniquely from China? Not much. Noodles? Fireworks?

Oh dear, who's gonna tell him?

[Kasper]

Some basic history lessons will show you that Christopher Columbus - a Brit - discovered America. OBVIOUSLY the people who were natives didn’t “discover” it any more than I’d “discover” my own feet - I’ve always had them just as they’d always lived there - NATIVE - that’s the clue.

Using CAPS and adding 'OBVIOUS' does not make you correct.  They used to be called Indians, some still are, does that means they are from India?  No, it means the people making up the names have zero credibility. 

[Bud]

What have they actually invented  of technological worth that is uniquely from China? Not much. Noodles? Fireworks?

Oh dear, who's gonna tell him?

Silk, gunpowder and,well,china? 

[Kasper]

What have they actually invented  of technological worth that is uniquely from China? Not much. Noodles? Fireworks?

Oh dear, who's gonna tell him?

Silk, gunpowder and,well,china? 

The tea cup may count as negative technological worth.

The argument presented goes something like this: Since the Chinese invented porcelain teacups early, they saw no need to invent glass to have something to drink from. Europeans in contrast didn’t have porcelain, but drank wine rather than tea. Glass is not very well suited for hot tea, but very well suited for temperate red and white wine. With glass, you can see the beautiful color of the wine. Thus, Europeans invented glass for their wine drinking habits. Glass led to lens grinding, which led to spectacles, telescopes, microscopes, beakers, and bottles used in chemistry. In short, glass powered the scientific revolution in Europe and China got left out.

[AndyBeez]

The accurate observation, recording and prediction of Astronomical events; for over 4,000 years.

The concept of artificial flight with kites and lanterns.

The inception of a 7 day week and thus, the creation of Le Weekend 

[TimFox]

We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

"You" discovered America!

 

You have your countries mixed up! Besides ... how can you "discover" a continent where there are already human beings inhabiting it - it's already been discovered!

Well clearly not me personally

Some basic history lessons will show you that Christopher Columbus - a Brit - discovered America. OBVIOUSLY the people who were natives didn’t “discover” it any more than I’d “discover” my own feet - I’ve always had them just as they’d always lived there - NATIVE - that’s the clue.

Leif Ericsson, a Norseman, found America long before an Italian, Cristoforo Colombo, in the service of Spain under the name Cristóbal Colón found it further south.
Later, under Henry VII, another Italian, Giovanni Caboto, in the service of England under the name John Cabot, found North America once again.
You could look it up...

[Kerlin]

Haha The Boston tea party right here on EEV.
Its an Aussie forum so we are not at all interested EH?.
Sides these days it would be the Boston curry party.

[T3sl4co1l]

Could've just as well been the Boston Molasses Party I suppose.

I mean, it was, just not in relation to any national or international relationships.

As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread... yeah, right, whatever.  The simple fact is all countries have committed terrible atrocities.  Against their neighbors, against their ("their" in geographic terms) prior inhabitants, against their own (current, naturalized) inhabitants, against remote enemies, anything.  Some worse than others perhaps, but ranking them seems a perverse activity, at best distracting from the fact that it's happened (or happening).  Likewise, all countries can credit themselves with numerous technical, artistic, spiritual, whatever achievements; amazingly enough, countries are complex (pseudo-?)entities.

Now, there are two readings a person will take away from this:
1. "BoTh SiDeS", everyone else does it so what does it matter that we did / are doing it, and what does it matter trying to prevent others from doing it?  Even if I could do anything about it, I still don't care.  Turn on the television, I want to see how my football team is doing.

Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us), and that we can better ourselves, to rise above that violent streak and treat one another with love and respect no matter who we are, or where we are from; and to monitor such events as (or before) they unfold, and hold our leaders accountable to reduce or eliminate such acts; and better research and understand why and how such events come to be: to understand systemic racism; cycles of poverty, crime and violence; to understand colonialism and imperialism, and their use of these behaviors and conditions as tools, to control and mold the populations they dominate; and so on.

And, in turn, if not preventing them from happening, then at least gaining and understanding of the economic forces (read: aristocrats, oligarchs, capitalists, corporations; take your pick) that drive these circumstances.  Which, as far as I know, on a sufficiently grand (international) scale, can always be reduced to this as an explanation; the only limitation is that historical (or even current day) evidence may not always be available to prove it.  Controlling these agents, has always been a challenge; since they seek to control us (in turn, our wealth), it's only ever at best been a constant struggle, and at worst an utter defeat.

Tim

[schmitt trigger]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

Then let’s start brainstorming and discussing ideas about perpetual motion and free energy.

[Rick Law]

Could've just as well been the Boston Molasses Party I suppose.

I mean, it was, just not in relation to any national or international relationships.

As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread... yeah, right, whatever.  The simple fact is all countries have committed terrible atrocities.  Against their neighbors, against their ("their" in geographic terms) prior inhabitants, against their own (current, naturalized) inhabitants, against remote enemies, anything.  Some worse than others perhaps, but ranking them seems a perverse activity, at best distracting from the fact that it's happened (or happening).  Likewise, all countries can credit themselves with numerous technical, artistic, spiritual, whatever achievements; amazingly enough, countries are complex (pseudo-?)entities.

Now, there are two readings a person will take away from this:
1. "BoTh SiDeS", everyone else does it so what does it matter that we did / are doing it, and what does it matter trying to prevent others from doing it?  Even if I could do anything about it, I still don't care.  Turn on the television, I want to see how my football team is doing.

Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us), and that we can better ourselves, to rise above that violent streak and treat one another with love and respect no matter who we are, or where we are from; and to monitor such events as (or before) they unfold, and hold our leaders accountable to reduce or eliminate such acts; and better research and understand why and how such events come to be: to understand systemic racism; cycles of poverty, crime and violence; to understand colonialism and imperialism, and their use of these behaviors and conditions as tools, to control and mold the populations they dominate; and so on.

And, in turn, if not preventing them from happening, then at least gaining and understanding of the economic forces (read: aristocrats, oligarchs, capitalists, corporations; take your pick) that drive these circumstances.  Which, as far as I know, on a sufficiently grand (international) scale, can always be reduced to this as an explanation; the only limitation is that historical (or even current day) evidence may not always be available to prove it.  Controlling these agents, has always been a challenge; since they seek to control us (in turn, our wealth), it's only ever at best been a constant struggle, and at worst an utter defeat.

Tim

Well put, Tim.  Can't agree with you more.  What was written in your post even apply to a person to some extend.  We all have some past doings we are not proud of.  I'm sure we all stepped on somebody sometime, perhaps even knowingly so.  The important thing is, as we grow, we hope we are a better person today than we were yesterday.  We hope we made a positive difference today and hope we improved the balance of our "good we've done" vs "bad we've done" in sum total.

A word on "discovery."  It is a "relative" term relating to "for whom the discovery was made".  For example, in a statement to my family: "I discovered this restaurant with good Sunday Brunch, let's go there next Sunday."  It is not as if no one knows the restaurant exist, it is me and my family didn't know about it.  The "discovery" is I "discovered" it for my family.  Now my family  know a place for Sunday Brunch.  No different than Columbus discovered America (for the sponsors of his trip) or Marco Polo discovered the Great Wall of China (for the people whom he told).

[magic]

Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us)

I like this.

It's always that damn sizable minority. If only we could get rid of them, somehow...

[T3sl4co1l]

I don't reject the possibility that at least a minority of us (if not a majority, which indeed is probably overstating it ) are capable of, well, lightness to put it overly simply; alas, it so happens that

It's always that damn sizable minority. If only we could get rid of them, somehow...

trying to do this, makes you one of them.  So, that's a non-solution.

Tim

[m k]

Darkness exist because it's heavier, obviously, why else light is called light.
And night is dark simply because light drifts away.

Also, there are no darkness in bright people, simply because darkness drains out.

[PlainName]

As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread...

Aren't you taking that a bit seriously? Apart from the initial jibe, which followed the usual form from that poster, the rest seems to me to be reasonably unserious top trumps or whatever game you call it. I don't see anyone likely to fall out with anyone else over this, or take offense, or start a fatwa or whatever.

Nationalist pride is nothing unusual or to be ashamed of. Abusing it is a problem, but the dorks that would do that would use something else if it wasn't this, and I don't see any of those sorts in this thread.

[Zoli]

...
We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

No doubt some replies with wildly faulty logic will follow, desperate to “disprove” this but the gist of it is, even though just a gist, we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

And without the continental electric discoveries we would be stuck in the steam(punk) era...

[eti]

As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread...

Aren't you taking that a bit seriously? Apart from the initial jibe, which followed the usual form from that poster, the rest seems to me to be reasonably unserious top trumps or whatever game you call it. I don't see anyone likely to fall out with anyone else over this, or take offense, or start a fatwa or whatever.

Nationalist pride is nothing unusual or to be ashamed of. Abusing it is a problem, but the dorks that would do that would use something else if it wasn't this, and I don't see any of those sorts in this thread.

This is EEVblog forums, EVERYTHING is "taken seriously" here  - because heaven forfend that anyone be light-hearted and allow things to be water off a ducks' back. I express myself with directness and passion, I am aware I speak my mind - but better to speak one's mind and be aware of it, and maybe come back and apologise when less worked up, than to be stiff, un-yielding and MISERABLE like A GIGANTINC amount of members here.... miserable as sin! LOL  - their faces would LITERALLY CRACK if they laughed!

I have aspergers, which means I can be pretty literal, but even so, I know life IS NOT ALL SYSTEMS, RESISTORS AND MEASUREMENTS! LOL! Got to have a laugh or you'd crack up - and intend to have a laugh, I SURELY DO, and if you don't like it, be a misery in your own company! 

[tszaboo]

Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us), and that we can better ourselves, to rise above that violent streak and treat one another with love and respect no matter who we are, or where we are from; and to monitor such events as (or before) they unfold, and hold our leaders accountable to reduce or eliminate such acts; and better research and understand why and how such events come to be: to understand systemic racism; cycles of poverty, crime and violence; to understand colonialism and imperialism, and their use of these behaviors and conditions as tools, to control and mold the populations they dominate; and so on.

I don't think that most people have a very good understanding of the horrible things they are capable of under different circumstances. They haven't fully integrated their self, and haven't embraced their own darkness. They look at history, and think that the people doing those horrible events were somehow different then them. They were not people, not like me. Look at them marching below that flag.

The same people don't believe that under the same circumstances they would march under the same flag. Just the same.
A good man is someone who is capable of doing terrible things but choses not to. Not someone who is not capable of anything.

And they don't fully understand the horrible things they are doing , marching under a different flag, today. History will look at us and judge us with their own morals a hundred years from now, and you will be cancelled on twitter for what you have done.

[PlainName]

Yes, people can revert to animalistic ways when the shit hits the fan (if they need an excuse), but feeling part of a group is not the cause of that. Being nationalistic is just being part of something on a larger scale than, say, family, or the street, or city. Or, indeed, footy. But that grouping is just an excuse, and if it wasn't a flag it would make of car or supplier of unobtainium chips, or something. You might as well accuse beefburgers of being a sign since they sell them at football stadiums and the yobs eat them.

[T3sl4co1l]

Yes, people can revert to animalistic ways when the shit hits the fan (if they need an excuse), but feeling part of a group is not the cause of that.

It is exactly that...

Humans are animals, no matter how much some of us may fool ourselves otherwise.  We might argue we have more complex dynamics than other animals, which, sure, that's fine -- but it is a dynamic nonetheless, fixed by and inextricably linked to our evolution, just as any other animal.

It is exactly human nature, our animalistic nature, that we (or many of us, anyway) feel the need to be part of a group, and to take actions to affirm the status of the group, and the individual within it.  Or to refuse to take action, thereby allowing other adverse action to take place.  Fear, survival, is an incredible de/motivator.

It is possible to separate oneself from this dynamic, at least in part.  But it's also a very lonely existence, and few have the will, or reason, to do so.  (Example: one could probably argue, say, certain Buddhist monks follow such a path.  Again, at least in part.  A desire to separate oneself from all desires, is a paradox of course.)

Tim

[SiliconWizard]

It is possible to separate oneself from this dynamic, at least in part.  But it's also a very lonely existence, and few have the will, or reason, to do so.  (Example: one could probably argue, say, certain Buddhist monks follow such a path.  Again, at least in part.  A desire to separate oneself from all desires, is a paradox of course.)

By identifying as buddhist monks and living life under this umbrella, they are still making themselves part of a group, with well-defined rules, a long history, a wide philosophical corpus, and so on.
Day-to-day life may look a lot lonelier than average, but they are not separating themselves from this dynamic whatsoever IMO. They are just choosing their group, as we almost all do.

Maybe a "better" example would be some hermits with absolutely no tie whatsoever to anyone or any human group. Those are extremely rare, to the point of being curiosities more than anything else.

[Kerlin]

    V   V   V   V   V

[EPAIII]

Sooo Solly, but

China worse!

It's the propaganda we all have been exposed to (here the western propaganda), that makes us virtue-signaling out of the blue.

There is the so called brain plasticity, the brain is being continuously shaped by the stimuli it is exposed to, no matter what.  Therefore propaganda affects everybody.  No matter if the subject is aware or not about the exposure to propaganda, the subject will still be mind conditioned eventually. 

The western world does censorship, too, similar with China.  We have laws against holocaust deniers, against spread covid misinformation, or antisemitism, or hate speech, etc.  Australia has laws against encryption, some nordic countries have laws against criticizing their politicians, and so on. 

So yes, China bad.  Similar with everybody else.

[RJSV]

"Voice-coil-Over Valve"...(thanks Whales);
   Won't work...tried that.  Can't get sound out, from vacume (that's why they're called a Vac Tube).
But, we've gone non-partisan, and attached transistor to drive the vac tube grid.

   (Don't try to hoodbazzle the Chinese,. Just play it straight and there will be confusion enough.)

   Insert transistor (NPP, or PNN OK), but do it fast, and MOST of the vaccination won't escape.  I guess for stereo you'd need two channels, calibrated for head-meat (audio) diffusion.
Call me, if auntie questions.

[AVGresponding]

"Voice-coil-Over Valve"...(thanks Whales);
   Won't work...tried that.  Can't get sound out, from vacume (that's why they're called a Vac Tube).
But, we've gone non-partisan, and attached transistor to drive the vac tube grid.

   (Don't try to hoodbazzle the Chinese,. Just play it straight and there will be confusion enough.)

   Insert transistor (NPP, or PNN OK), but do it fast, and MOST of the vaccination won't escape.  I guess for stereo you'd need two channels, calibrated for head-meat (audio) diffusion.
Call me, if auntie questions.

Sound and vibrations generally, are coupled through the base of the tube, where the pins go through the glass. The vacuum is irrelevant, except to note that the transmission method affects resonance and transmission speed.

[AndyBeez]

Soviet Cadmium Transistors.

I need to buy them Biadu 

[Xena E]

.... we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

 

I'm sorry this is so late, it may seem bitter:

I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment

Perhaps we have inventing in our culture! But we are also good at dropping the ball on a lot of the technology.

You can't blame others for picking up and investing in development... or as is often the case, developing similar technologies independently.

There's so many examples it's embarrassing. 

I'll raise you the programmable electronic computer for starters...

The UK needs investment in its people who can innovate,  unfortunately the culture has always been preserve the status quo and stick our british  thumbs up our jolly british butts.

[AVGresponding]

.... we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

 

I'm sorry this is so late, it may seem bitter:

I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment

Perhaps we have inventing in our culture! But we are also good at dropping the ball on a lot of the technology.

You can't blame others for picking up and investing in development... or as is often the case, developing similar technologies independently.

There's so many examples it's embarrassing. 

I'll raise you the programmable electronic computer for starters...

The UK needs investment in its people who can innovate,  unfortunately the culture has always been preserve the status quo and stick our british  thumbs up our jolly british butts.

In fact a number of people criticised him for his cretinous post.

[Xena E]

.... we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

 

I'm sorry this is so late, it may seem bitter:

I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment

Perhaps we have inventing in our culture! But we are also good at dropping the ball on a lot of the technology.

You can't blame others for picking up and investing in development... or as is often the case, developing similar technologies independently.

There's so many examples it's embarrassing. 

I'll raise you the programmable electronic computer for starters...

The UK needs investment in its people who can innovate,  unfortunately the culture has always been preserve the status quo and stick our british  thumbs up our jolly british butts.

In fact a number of people criticised him for his cretinous post.

Perhaps I should have typed:


I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment 

Just just wanted to pile on

Still can't get over the Chris C thing, that has just got to have been click bait!

Everybody knows that the Irish discovered America during the reign of queen Victoria, who told them they should eat cake when they ran out of milk and tatties because she was too mean to send them wheat to make some bread with. They had to emigrate and become NYC police officers to save themselves from starvation That's what really happened.

There. I think I've insulted most deserving people on this side of the Atlantic sufficiently  for one day

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

[tggzzz]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

[Rick Law]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

[tggzzz]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

I don't disagree, but PhDs are so specialised that the knowledge is unlikely to be directly relevant to an industrial employer. As far as I can see, the only valid reasons for doing a PhD are to climb the academic ladder, and because someone really really wants to. Money, no. Employability outside academia, no.

[TimFox]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

I don't disagree, but PhDs are so specialised that the knowledge is unlikely to be directly relevant to an industrial employer. As far as I can see, the only valid reasons for doing a PhD are to climb the academic ladder, and because someone really really wants to. Money, no. Employability outside academia, no.

In the US, many PhD physicists are employed in industrial firms, doing basic research or applied R&D.
When I retired from such employment (with my PhD), there were at least half a dozen of us in a relatively small branch of an x-ray company.
I remember reading that with the limited opportunities in academia, more physics PhD graduates went into non-academic (mostly industrial) occupations than into traditional tenure-track academic employment.
One statistical summary:  https://www.aip.org/statistics/data-graphics/type-employment-new-physics-phds-employment-sector-classes-2019-2020
It shows that in the "potentially permanent" (excluding post-docs) category, 70% went into the private sector, 8% into government, only 18% into academia.
That AIP (American Institute of Physics) website includes many summaries of employment for physics and astronomy PhDs:  feel free to read further.

When I was close to graduation, I attended a lecture on the job market for PhDs, given by an economics grad student at the University of Chicago, based on his thesis research.
He pointed out that this basic problem in economic theory had been worked out in the 19th century, in the context of the agricultural economics of hog raising.
Fundamentally, a farmer has to make his decision on how many hogs to raise based on his knowledge of the market for pork several years in the future.
The mathematics thereof leads to the same equations as in the forced damped harmonic oscillator beloved of physicists:  his research showed the relevant oscillator was slightly underdamped.

[tggzzz]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

I don't disagree, but PhDs are so specialised that the knowledge is unlikely to be directly relevant to an industrial employer. As far as I can see, the only valid reasons for doing a PhD are to climb the academic ladder, and because someone really really wants to. Money, no. Employability outside academia, no.

In the US, many PhD physicists are employed in industrial firms, doing basic research or applied R&D.
When I retired from such employment (with my PhD), there were at least half a dozen of us in a relatively small branch of an x-ray company.
I remember reading that with the limited opportunities in academia, more physics PhD graduates went into non-academic (mostly industrial) occupations than into traditional tenure-track academic employment.
One statistical summary:  https://www.aip.org/statistics/data-graphics/type-employment-new-physics-phds-employment-sector-classes-2019-2020
It shows that in the "potentially permanent" (excluding post-docs) category, 70% went into the private sector, 8% into government, only 18% into academia.
That AIP (American Institute of Physics) website includes many summaries of employment for physics and astronomy PhDs:  feel free to read further.

I've no doubt that's correct. But is it the correct answer to an unimportant question?

What would their employment prospects have been if they hadn't done and got a PhD? There's an argument, probably with some validity, that unless their PhD is directly relevant to an employer

• they started employment at the same level (money, competence, level) as someone without a PhD
• they were thus 3/4/x years behind, in terms of money in the bank, experience, etc

That can, of course, be argued either way, but I think it is at least an interesting contention.

When I was close to graduation, I attended a lecture on the job market for PhDs, given by an economics grad student at the University of Chicago, based on his thesis research.
He pointed out that this basic problem in economic theory had been worked out in the 19th century, in the context of the agricultural economics of hog raising.
Fundamentally, a farmer has to make his decision on how many hogs to raise based on his knowledge of the market for pork several years in the future.
The mathematics thereof leads to the same equations as in the forced damped harmonic oscillator beloved of physicists:  his research showed the relevant oscillator was slightly underdamped.

Ah, the good old "hog cycle" Traditionally, I believe, used as an example of where government intervention in the supposedly infallible omniscient "free market" actually benefits all parties. Not something libertarians want to hear.

[TimFox]

A PhD in Physics or other physical science trains one to do research, which is different from doing engineering.
The private sector does make use of research, as well as engineering.

Actually, the speaker was from the Economics Department of the University of Chicago, whose motto was "the government will mess up anything it touches".
In his lecture, he considered the driving function into the forced damped oscillator to be government hiring, which he considered to change too abruptly.
Luckily, the parameters of the oscillator were only slightly underdamped.

[zrq]

This topic is getting derailed and it's running further and further away...

Can Baidu be just indexing this forum? They run a (shitty) search engine which the majority of Chinese use daily (they have little choose, Google is out of the game), so it's possible they are just indexing for the search engine and probably with a too fast rate limit. Another possibility is they are trying to create yet another ChatGPT copy, and they want some quality content to train their networks.

[SiliconWizard]

This topic is getting derailed and it's running further and further away...

Can Baidu be just indexing this forum? They run a (shitty) search engine which the majority of Chinese use daily (they have little choose, Google is out of the game), so it's possible they are just indexing for the search engine and probably with a too fast rate limit. Another possibility is they are trying to create yet another ChatGPT copy, and they want some quality content to train their networks.

Probably both.

[zrq]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.
 

I've been hoping that China would do what Japan did in the 70s and realize that there is value in making high quality products with reliable specs but that doesn't seem to be happening. I'd have thought there would be shame in having a label that says "Made in China" on garbage that doesn't live up to the claims.

As a younger Chinese (expat) who had been tricked by fellow Chinese all the time, I'm really frustrated about this. I'm trying to be honest myself as much a possible and but can do nothing about others.

My view is a bit brighter as I witnessed the transition of "Made in China" higher value goods from complete crap into something less crappy, as well as other changes in mainland China as the Chinese people are getting richer. We may just need to wait longer and hope another cold war will not start. I think "Made in Japan" also had similar transition, not in 70s but a bit later (and the role of US-Japan relation in this transition is another interesting topic).

[magic]

This topic is getting derailed and it's running further and further away...

Can Baidu be just indexing this forum?

Nah, that would be too boring and ordinary.

(Also, I would like to give most participants in this thread the benefit of the doubt and hope that their posts weren't entirely serious).

[Black Phoenix]

As a younger Chinese (expat) who had been tricked by fellow Chinese all the time, I'm really frustrated about this. I'm trying to be honest myself as much a possible and but can do nothing about others.

My view is a bit brighter as I witnessed the transition of "Made in China" higher value goods from complete crap into something less crappy, as well as other changes in mainland China as the Chinese people are getting richer. We may just need to wait longer and hope another cold war will not start. I think "Made in Japan" also had similar transition, not in 70s but a bit later (and the role of US-Japan relation in this transition is another interesting topic).

As an European living in Mainland China / Hong Kong since 2019 that is exactly my thoughts too.

Back in the west, at least in my home country (Portugal) China was always took as cheap, bad quality product and the "factory of the world" were most "good" brands do their products.

After I arrived here and after seeing how much of their industry works and being able to see a big industrial production from simple kids toys to laser machines and CNC manufacturing (not making parts, the build of the machines itself) I perfectly can say they have the chance to be as Japan was in the 70s and good, very good.

Unfortunately they prefer to undercut even their own brands with cheaper clones, sometimes to the point of just the outside sticker changing and some parts being cut from the BOM.

I see that in the DTF and Eco Solvent printing machine manufacturing business (where I currently more envolved with) were most designs of tons of manufacturers are exact copies, using the same parts and even outside design, where the logo and colour is the only change.

There are 2 main board manufacturers, Hoson and Senyang, where the Senyang is a copy of the Hoson, made by one of the original engineers who left the company and created his own. All use the same print heads, mostly Epson I3200 or XP600, although it exists offers from Konica and Canon available. Designs are the same mostly:


DTF


Eco Solvent

OEMs are available (I know at least 3, and I also know the relation between them and the brands) but also own production for some bigger/more aggressive companies.

I know at least 100 different brands, selling the same stuff and trying to compete for scraps. I have a close relation with a small company and I'm helping them to improve and make things different, to try to differentiate from the rest (better parts used, different design, better assembly quality) but we have perfectly notion that as soon the new designs go into sale they will be copied in less than a week and everyone will again be selling the same.

Most Chinese company owners don't see value in being different, in trying to do the same but in different/better way. I know they have the knowhow, they have the passion and have the power to, but they simply don't care.

Not only that but the end buyer only care about one thing: price. There are not a added value view, the end price is always the deal maker.

And it will take time to change that.

[BravoV]

As a younger Chinese (expat) who had been tricked by fellow Chinese all the time, I'm really frustrated about this. I'm trying to be honest myself as much a possible and but can do nothing about others.

My view is a bit brighter as I witnessed the transition of "Made in China" higher value goods from complete crap into something less crappy, as well as other changes in mainland China as the Chinese people are getting richer. We may just need to wait longer and hope another cold war will not start. I think "Made in Japan" also had similar transition, not in 70s but a bit later (and the role of US-Japan relation in this transition is another interesting topic).

Good, have a little patience and keep hanging there a "little while" grasshopper, good things will come eventually. 

Naturally, like human analogy, before you can run fast, you need to learn to walk properly, before that to stand firmly, and crawl steadily .. etc.

It takes time, again, patience. Ignore the naysayers, bashers or worst saboteurs, they're too scared to see the progress going.

Forget Japan, they managed to learn to crawl, stand up, walk steadily and run fast  , but when tried to fly ... they were "handicapped" by imperial power, you're smart enough to be aware and know who. 

Yes, Japan is basically "crippled" by design, and your country does NOT have that problem like Japan does, just be patience for little longer, let it ripe, naturally. 

[Psi]

Would be funny if we could detect when AI trawls the forum and pass all those requests though a word substitution filter so the training text they get is tainted in a known way.

But we might be shooting ourselves in the foot.  Having a really good electronics GPT system would be nice.

[RJSV]

It's good to 'practice' the personal justice thing, on Chinese tech, sure, makes one feel good.  But closer to home, for those of us in the U.S. would be a little more recognition of our own 'Dirty Laundrey'.
   Censorship, free speech issues ? 
   Here in the U.S. I've gotten cancelled, from an extra benefits package, worth thousands $.
   "Mr. Rick, it appears the office staff had SHREDDED your files..." The friendly office person confided, without further explanation.
   I figure it was, probably, me working the mouth, as usual:
   "You folks, your office, you need to actually be there, not at home, 'working'.  I couldn't even get a phone-call through, to the office person handling my request."
"...Maybe try less emphasis, on letting everyone know, how 'DIVERSE' your organization is..."

(See what I mean, about me running my mouth, in
 America ?)

[trs]

No, I do not at all see what you mean.

[RJSV]

Ok, I'm often not so clear of a writer (EECS).
   Part of the point being, many times I've come across a fellow American, that confuses IDEAL citizen makeup rather than actual.  An 'IDEAL' citizen is going to recognize stupidity or bigotry in any context, while the actual, quite naturally, will have some degree of bias-induced 'blindness', to actual flaws close to home.
   That means self-critical perception, but worse even, is when the self-critical stuff gets totally shut down, as is the case at present.
   To save a few hurt feelings, I will state that indirectly:
   State governor John Jones, (fictional example) runs for office, garnering all sorts of praise, to the degree that it appears 'unconditional', regardless of actual competence, as a public office agent.
Meanwhile, Mary Smith (fictional) will be running for same office, soon, and every last breath and word uttered seems to involve contempt-riddled and endless criticism...almost as if Satan himself were the subject of such withering scrutiny.

   Looking at that juxtaposed pair of candidates, and the coverage they get, much of the glaring difference of treatment starts to make sense, when the fact that 'its politics' is considered.  THEN, a person often can say "Oh...wait, ...this is just, simply, POLITICAL smear dynamics...".   Not all that clever, either.
(Some just play dumb, when obvious smear tactics are put before them).
Ultimately, some recognize that dichotomy, and have a light-hearted laugh, while others continue to dig in and 'cant see it'.... A bit of Gaslighting, there, as last resort.

[RJSV]

Point being, using REAL examples, now:
   I had mentioned, BEFORE they disappeared my file contents, had mentioned that 'Covid shut-downs are interfering with your office functioning properly'.
That's criticism.
   'Your office is engaging in nonproductive 'virtue signalling', a self-declared (racial and social) inclusion of all...'
My words there were not so harsh, but perceived as such.
More criticism.  You cannot criticise, without consequences.  My loss being a couple thousand bucks, and more than a year delay to correct that little 'glitch', in consistency.
   Others have lost their jobs.  Go ahead and doubt that.
That's called Gas Lighting,...

[soldar]

I have to laugh at anyone who thinks Baidu is doing anything nefarious when crawling websites. It's search engine for cat's sakes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baidu

Baidu has the second largest search engine in the world, and held a 76.05% market share in China's search engine market. In December 2007, Baidu became the first Chinese company to be included in the NASDAQ-100 index. As of May 2018, Baidu's market cap rose to US$99 billion. In October 2018, Baidu became the first Chinese firm to join the United States-based computer ethics consortium Partnership on AI.

[RoGeorge]

Baidu became the first Chinese firm to join the United States-based computer ethics consortium Partnership on AI.

No idea what "computer ethics consortium on AI" supposed to mean. 
Google says that's an NGO, or else said it's nobody.

Meanwhile, a couple of years ago USA ratified for DoD the development of lethal autonomous/AI-driven weapons.  That act was justified as a "zero sum game" in response to the Chinese military.  So neither of the two states is innocent when it comes to ethics about AI.

[magic]

FYI, you are responding to a necro by a known China fanboy

Kinda surpsised to see him again, I thought he rage quit the forum years ago.

[Ed.Kloonk]

The key development since that time has been the widespread wary-ness of committees and indeed consortiums that, for example, have words like ethics shoved in the mission statement.

Systemic pander groups are on the nose.

[SL4P]

They'll regurgitate some censored, cut down version I'm sure.

Misinterpreted / misunderstood I’m sure.

[SL4P]

Just imagine what the AI platforms are learning from this thread !
Copy it to as many sites as possible, then you can drive the future as it becomes future truth.