Baidu is trawling the EEVblog forum

[Zoli]

...
We Brits started the Industrial Revolution. Americans built upon it, and at some point down the line the Chinese cloned it all. Look at the most used and prominent inventions used every day - the majority were invented here in the UK. Before any Americans pipe up and claim said inventions, remember, we have been here many many hundreds of years before todays’ America came to be - we discovered you in 1492!

No doubt some replies with wildly faulty logic will follow, desperate to “disprove” this but the gist of it is, even though just a gist, we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

And without the continental electric discoveries we would be stuck in the steam(punk) era...

[eti]

As for the nationalist fervor, or jingoism or what have you, in this thread...

Aren't you taking that a bit seriously? Apart from the initial jibe, which followed the usual form from that poster, the rest seems to me to be reasonably unserious top trumps or whatever game you call it. I don't see anyone likely to fall out with anyone else over this, or take offense, or start a fatwa or whatever.

Nationalist pride is nothing unusual or to be ashamed of. Abusing it is a problem, but the dorks that would do that would use something else if it wasn't this, and I don't see any of those sorts in this thread.

This is EEVblog forums, EVERYTHING is "taken seriously" here  - because heaven forfend that anyone be light-hearted and allow things to be water off a ducks' back. I express myself with directness and passion, I am aware I speak my mind - but better to speak one's mind and be aware of it, and maybe come back and apologise when less worked up, than to be stiff, un-yielding and MISERABLE like A GIGANTINC amount of members here.... miserable as sin! LOL  - their faces would LITERALLY CRACK if they laughed!

I have aspergers, which means I can be pretty literal, but even so, I know life IS NOT ALL SYSTEMS, RESISTORS AND MEASUREMENTS! LOL! Got to have a laugh or you'd crack up - and intend to have a laugh, I SURELY DO, and if you don't like it, be a misery in your own company! 

[tszaboo]

Or 2., acknowledging that that darkness exists within all of us (or at least a sizable minority of us), and that we can better ourselves, to rise above that violent streak and treat one another with love and respect no matter who we are, or where we are from; and to monitor such events as (or before) they unfold, and hold our leaders accountable to reduce or eliminate such acts; and better research and understand why and how such events come to be: to understand systemic racism; cycles of poverty, crime and violence; to understand colonialism and imperialism, and their use of these behaviors and conditions as tools, to control and mold the populations they dominate; and so on.

I don't think that most people have a very good understanding of the horrible things they are capable of under different circumstances. They haven't fully integrated their self, and haven't embraced their own darkness. They look at history, and think that the people doing those horrible events were somehow different then them. They were not people, not like me. Look at them marching below that flag.

The same people don't believe that under the same circumstances they would march under the same flag. Just the same.
A good man is someone who is capable of doing terrible things but choses not to. Not someone who is not capable of anything.

And they don't fully understand the horrible things they are doing , marching under a different flag, today. History will look at us and judge us with their own morals a hundred years from now, and you will be cancelled on twitter for what you have done.

[PlainName]

Yes, people can revert to animalistic ways when the shit hits the fan (if they need an excuse), but feeling part of a group is not the cause of that. Being nationalistic is just being part of something on a larger scale than, say, family, or the street, or city. Or, indeed, footy. But that grouping is just an excuse, and if it wasn't a flag it would make of car or supplier of unobtainium chips, or something. You might as well accuse beefburgers of being a sign since they sell them at football stadiums and the yobs eat them.

[T3sl4co1l]

Yes, people can revert to animalistic ways when the shit hits the fan (if they need an excuse), but feeling part of a group is not the cause of that.

It is exactly that...

Humans are animals, no matter how much some of us may fool ourselves otherwise.  We might argue we have more complex dynamics than other animals, which, sure, that's fine -- but it is a dynamic nonetheless, fixed by and inextricably linked to our evolution, just as any other animal.

It is exactly human nature, our animalistic nature, that we (or many of us, anyway) feel the need to be part of a group, and to take actions to affirm the status of the group, and the individual within it.  Or to refuse to take action, thereby allowing other adverse action to take place.  Fear, survival, is an incredible de/motivator.

It is possible to separate oneself from this dynamic, at least in part.  But it's also a very lonely existence, and few have the will, or reason, to do so.  (Example: one could probably argue, say, certain Buddhist monks follow such a path.  Again, at least in part.  A desire to separate oneself from all desires, is a paradox of course.)

Tim

[SiliconWizard]

It is possible to separate oneself from this dynamic, at least in part.  But it's also a very lonely existence, and few have the will, or reason, to do so.  (Example: one could probably argue, say, certain Buddhist monks follow such a path.  Again, at least in part.  A desire to separate oneself from all desires, is a paradox of course.)

By identifying as buddhist monks and living life under this umbrella, they are still making themselves part of a group, with well-defined rules, a long history, a wide philosophical corpus, and so on.
Day-to-day life may look a lot lonelier than average, but they are not separating themselves from this dynamic whatsoever IMO. They are just choosing their group, as we almost all do.

Maybe a "better" example would be some hermits with absolutely no tie whatsoever to anyone or any human group. Those are extremely rare, to the point of being curiosities more than anything else.

[Kerlin]

    V   V   V   V   V

[EPAIII]

Sooo Solly, but

China worse!

It's the propaganda we all have been exposed to (here the western propaganda), that makes us virtue-signaling out of the blue.

There is the so called brain plasticity, the brain is being continuously shaped by the stimuli it is exposed to, no matter what.  Therefore propaganda affects everybody.  No matter if the subject is aware or not about the exposure to propaganda, the subject will still be mind conditioned eventually. 

The western world does censorship, too, similar with China.  We have laws against holocaust deniers, against spread covid misinformation, or antisemitism, or hate speech, etc.  Australia has laws against encryption, some nordic countries have laws against criticizing their politicians, and so on. 

So yes, China bad.  Similar with everybody else.

[RJSV]

"Voice-coil-Over Valve"...(thanks Whales);
   Won't work...tried that.  Can't get sound out, from vacume (that's why they're called a Vac Tube).
But, we've gone non-partisan, and attached transistor to drive the vac tube grid.

   (Don't try to hoodbazzle the Chinese,. Just play it straight and there will be confusion enough.)

   Insert transistor (NPP, or PNN OK), but do it fast, and MOST of the vaccination won't escape.  I guess for stereo you'd need two channels, calibrated for head-meat (audio) diffusion.
Call me, if auntie questions.

[AVGresponding]

"Voice-coil-Over Valve"...(thanks Whales);
   Won't work...tried that.  Can't get sound out, from vacume (that's why they're called a Vac Tube).
But, we've gone non-partisan, and attached transistor to drive the vac tube grid.

   (Don't try to hoodbazzle the Chinese,. Just play it straight and there will be confusion enough.)

   Insert transistor (NPP, or PNN OK), but do it fast, and MOST of the vaccination won't escape.  I guess for stereo you'd need two channels, calibrated for head-meat (audio) diffusion.
Call me, if auntie questions.

Sound and vibrations generally, are coupled through the base of the tube, where the pins go through the glass. The vacuum is irrelevant, except to note that the transmission method affects resonance and transmission speed.

[AndyBeez]

Soviet Cadmium Transistors.

I need to buy them Biadu 

[Xena E]

.... we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

 

I'm sorry this is so late, it may seem bitter:

I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment

Perhaps we have inventing in our culture! But we are also good at dropping the ball on a lot of the technology.

You can't blame others for picking up and investing in development... or as is often the case, developing similar technologies independently.

There's so many examples it's embarrassing. 

I'll raise you the programmable electronic computer for starters...

The UK needs investment in its people who can innovate,  unfortunately the culture has always been preserve the status quo and stick our british  thumbs up our jolly british butts.

[AVGresponding]

.... we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

 

I'm sorry this is so late, it may seem bitter:

I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment

Perhaps we have inventing in our culture! But we are also good at dropping the ball on a lot of the technology.

You can't blame others for picking up and investing in development... or as is often the case, developing similar technologies independently.

There's so many examples it's embarrassing. 

I'll raise you the programmable electronic computer for starters...

The UK needs investment in its people who can innovate,  unfortunately the culture has always been preserve the status quo and stick our british  thumbs up our jolly british butts.

In fact a number of people criticised him for his cretinous post.

[Xena E]

.... we have the inventing in our culture and DNA here in the UK.

 

I'm sorry this is so late, it may seem bitter:

I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment

Perhaps we have inventing in our culture! But we are also good at dropping the ball on a lot of the technology.

You can't blame others for picking up and investing in development... or as is often the case, developing similar technologies independently.

There's so many examples it's embarrassing. 

I'll raise you the programmable electronic computer for starters...

The UK needs investment in its people who can innovate,  unfortunately the culture has always been preserve the status quo and stick our british  thumbs up our jolly british butts.

In fact a number of people criticised him for his cretinous post.

Perhaps I should have typed:


I don't think the intervening posters have picked up on the above comment 

Just just wanted to pile on

Still can't get over the Chris C thing, that has just got to have been click bait!

Everybody knows that the Irish discovered America during the reign of queen Victoria, who told them they should eat cake when they ran out of milk and tatties because she was too mean to send them wheat to make some bread with. They had to emigrate and become NYC police officers to save themselves from starvation That's what really happened.

There. I think I've insulted most deserving people on this side of the Atlantic sufficiently  for one day

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

[tggzzz]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

[Rick Law]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

[tggzzz]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

I don't disagree, but PhDs are so specialised that the knowledge is unlikely to be directly relevant to an industrial employer. As far as I can see, the only valid reasons for doing a PhD are to climb the academic ladder, and because someone really really wants to. Money, no. Employability outside academia, no.

[TimFox]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

I don't disagree, but PhDs are so specialised that the knowledge is unlikely to be directly relevant to an industrial employer. As far as I can see, the only valid reasons for doing a PhD are to climb the academic ladder, and because someone really really wants to. Money, no. Employability outside academia, no.

In the US, many PhD physicists are employed in industrial firms, doing basic research or applied R&D.
When I retired from such employment (with my PhD), there were at least half a dozen of us in a relatively small branch of an x-ray company.
I remember reading that with the limited opportunities in academia, more physics PhD graduates went into non-academic (mostly industrial) occupations than into traditional tenure-track academic employment.
One statistical summary:  https://www.aip.org/statistics/data-graphics/type-employment-new-physics-phds-employment-sector-classes-2019-2020
It shows that in the "potentially permanent" (excluding post-docs) category, 70% went into the private sector, 8% into government, only 18% into academia.
That AIP (American Institute of Physics) website includes many summaries of employment for physics and astronomy PhDs:  feel free to read further.

When I was close to graduation, I attended a lecture on the job market for PhDs, given by an economics grad student at the University of Chicago, based on his thesis research.
He pointed out that this basic problem in economic theory had been worked out in the 19th century, in the context of the agricultural economics of hog raising.
Fundamentally, a farmer has to make his decision on how many hogs to raise based on his knowledge of the market for pork several years in the future.
The mathematics thereof leads to the same equations as in the forced damped harmonic oscillator beloved of physicists:  his research showed the relevant oscillator was slightly underdamped.

[tggzzz]

Edit: being a diagnosed aspergers doesn't stop an individual from gaining an education.

Too many people are educated beyond their intelligence.

Politicians seem particularly prone to that.

It is also important to note the difference between being educated verses being credentialed.

Too many people are credentialed but are hardly educated.  Even PhD degrees are handed out like hot-cakes these days.   To me, academia lost a lot of credibility in recent years.

I don't disagree, but PhDs are so specialised that the knowledge is unlikely to be directly relevant to an industrial employer. As far as I can see, the only valid reasons for doing a PhD are to climb the academic ladder, and because someone really really wants to. Money, no. Employability outside academia, no.

In the US, many PhD physicists are employed in industrial firms, doing basic research or applied R&D.
When I retired from such employment (with my PhD), there were at least half a dozen of us in a relatively small branch of an x-ray company.
I remember reading that with the limited opportunities in academia, more physics PhD graduates went into non-academic (mostly industrial) occupations than into traditional tenure-track academic employment.
One statistical summary:  https://www.aip.org/statistics/data-graphics/type-employment-new-physics-phds-employment-sector-classes-2019-2020
It shows that in the "potentially permanent" (excluding post-docs) category, 70% went into the private sector, 8% into government, only 18% into academia.
That AIP (American Institute of Physics) website includes many summaries of employment for physics and astronomy PhDs:  feel free to read further.

I've no doubt that's correct. But is it the correct answer to an unimportant question?

What would their employment prospects have been if they hadn't done and got a PhD? There's an argument, probably with some validity, that unless their PhD is directly relevant to an employer

• they started employment at the same level (money, competence, level) as someone without a PhD
• they were thus 3/4/x years behind, in terms of money in the bank, experience, etc

That can, of course, be argued either way, but I think it is at least an interesting contention.

When I was close to graduation, I attended a lecture on the job market for PhDs, given by an economics grad student at the University of Chicago, based on his thesis research.
He pointed out that this basic problem in economic theory had been worked out in the 19th century, in the context of the agricultural economics of hog raising.
Fundamentally, a farmer has to make his decision on how many hogs to raise based on his knowledge of the market for pork several years in the future.
The mathematics thereof leads to the same equations as in the forced damped harmonic oscillator beloved of physicists:  his research showed the relevant oscillator was slightly underdamped.

Ah, the good old "hog cycle" Traditionally, I believe, used as an example of where government intervention in the supposedly infallible omniscient "free market" actually benefits all parties. Not something libertarians want to hear.

[TimFox]

A PhD in Physics or other physical science trains one to do research, which is different from doing engineering.
The private sector does make use of research, as well as engineering.

Actually, the speaker was from the Economics Department of the University of Chicago, whose motto was "the government will mess up anything it touches".
In his lecture, he considered the driving function into the forced damped oscillator to be government hiring, which he considered to change too abruptly.
Luckily, the parameters of the oscillator were only slightly underdamped.

[zrq]

This topic is getting derailed and it's running further and further away...

Can Baidu be just indexing this forum? They run a (shitty) search engine which the majority of Chinese use daily (they have little choose, Google is out of the game), so it's possible they are just indexing for the search engine and probably with a too fast rate limit. Another possibility is they are trying to create yet another ChatGPT copy, and they want some quality content to train their networks.

[SiliconWizard]

This topic is getting derailed and it's running further and further away...

Can Baidu be just indexing this forum? They run a (shitty) search engine which the majority of Chinese use daily (they have little choose, Google is out of the game), so it's possible they are just indexing for the search engine and probably with a too fast rate limit. Another possibility is they are trying to create yet another ChatGPT copy, and they want some quality content to train their networks.

Probably both.

[zrq]

ideas posted may just end up on AliEx   

A 2000w inverter that can actually do 2000w.
 

I've been hoping that China would do what Japan did in the 70s and realize that there is value in making high quality products with reliable specs but that doesn't seem to be happening. I'd have thought there would be shame in having a label that says "Made in China" on garbage that doesn't live up to the claims.

As a younger Chinese (expat) who had been tricked by fellow Chinese all the time, I'm really frustrated about this. I'm trying to be honest myself as much a possible and but can do nothing about others.

My view is a bit brighter as I witnessed the transition of "Made in China" higher value goods from complete crap into something less crappy, as well as other changes in mainland China as the Chinese people are getting richer. We may just need to wait longer and hope another cold war will not start. I think "Made in Japan" also had similar transition, not in 70s but a bit later (and the role of US-Japan relation in this transition is another interesting topic).

[magic]

This topic is getting derailed and it's running further and further away...

Can Baidu be just indexing this forum?

Nah, that would be too boring and ordinary.

(Also, I would like to give most participants in this thread the benefit of the doubt and hope that their posts weren't entirely serious).

[Black Phoenix]

As a younger Chinese (expat) who had been tricked by fellow Chinese all the time, I'm really frustrated about this. I'm trying to be honest myself as much a possible and but can do nothing about others.

My view is a bit brighter as I witnessed the transition of "Made in China" higher value goods from complete crap into something less crappy, as well as other changes in mainland China as the Chinese people are getting richer. We may just need to wait longer and hope another cold war will not start. I think "Made in Japan" also had similar transition, not in 70s but a bit later (and the role of US-Japan relation in this transition is another interesting topic).

As an European living in Mainland China / Hong Kong since 2019 that is exactly my thoughts too.

Back in the west, at least in my home country (Portugal) China was always took as cheap, bad quality product and the "factory of the world" were most "good" brands do their products.

After I arrived here and after seeing how much of their industry works and being able to see a big industrial production from simple kids toys to laser machines and CNC manufacturing (not making parts, the build of the machines itself) I perfectly can say they have the chance to be as Japan was in the 70s and good, very good.

Unfortunately they prefer to undercut even their own brands with cheaper clones, sometimes to the point of just the outside sticker changing and some parts being cut from the BOM.

I see that in the DTF and Eco Solvent printing machine manufacturing business (where I currently more envolved with) were most designs of tons of manufacturers are exact copies, using the same parts and even outside design, where the logo and colour is the only change.

There are 2 main board manufacturers, Hoson and Senyang, where the Senyang is a copy of the Hoson, made by one of the original engineers who left the company and created his own. All use the same print heads, mostly Epson I3200 or XP600, although it exists offers from Konica and Canon available. Designs are the same mostly:


DTF


Eco Solvent

OEMs are available (I know at least 3, and I also know the relation between them and the brands) but also own production for some bigger/more aggressive companies.

I know at least 100 different brands, selling the same stuff and trying to compete for scraps. I have a close relation with a small company and I'm helping them to improve and make things different, to try to differentiate from the rest (better parts used, different design, better assembly quality) but we have perfectly notion that as soon the new designs go into sale they will be copied in less than a week and everyone will again be selling the same.

Most Chinese company owners don't see value in being different, in trying to do the same but in different/better way. I know they have the knowhow, they have the passion and have the power to, but they simply don't care.

Not only that but the end buyer only care about one thing: price. There are not a added value view, the end price is always the deal maker.

And it will take time to change that.