General > General Technical Chat
Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
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eugenenine:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 04, 2020, 08:43:34 pm ---Where can you even buy standard NiMH batteries anymore? Maybe random China sellers? I haven't seen them in years, all the ones that the local stores around here carry are pre-charged (LSD), all of the Amazon branded ones, all of the Ikea ones, even the cheap stuff like Tenergy is LSD, albeit not as good quality as the Japanese stuff. It's a complete non-issue, yes I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find garbage, just like if you can easily find junk alkaline cells that leak (Duracell, Kirkland, etc) but excellent quality NiMH cells have been widely available mainstream products for over a decade, I literally have not bought a single disposable AAA, AA or 9V battery in more than 10 years and this has not required any extreme measures or sacrifices. It surprises me that anyone still buys them, I can only assume they are either "penny wise and pound foolish" or they are not aware that technology has progressed.

--- End quote ---

I still see non-LSD NiMH sold in grocery stores where the average non-technical person is still likely to buy them.  Thankfully I haven't see the Energizer 15 minute battery cookers but still see their non-LSD batteries.  Those have done a lot to steer people away from rechargeables over the years.
eugenenine:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 16, 2020, 04:37:19 pm ---I have some 20+ year old NiCads that are still usable and some other chemistries of similar age also usable.  But they are the exceptions, not the rule.  Just as there are incandescent bulbs still burning after many decades of use.

The reasons for survival are multiple and at least partly unknown to me.  Initial quality.  Careful storage.  Benign usage.  Careful charging.  ..... 

It would be unreasonable to expect all of these things to line up for the general population of batteries.  Some Lithium chemistries are more robust to the ills of battery usage, but I still think it is optimistic to assume 20 year life for the bulk of the population.

--- End quote ---

Most of the NiCad's and NiMH I've seen that didn't last very long were due to either too slow (trickle) or too fast (15 minute) charging.  Since Li based cells require more precise charging circuits you don't find the bad charge designs like you do other cells.   Though its still rare to see a Li based cell more than a few years old.  I'd bet your long life batteries had a decent charger.
Rick Law:

--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on October 16, 2020, 08:46:10 am ---I wish everything would just switch to using lithium ion cells.  Basically treat protected 18650 or perhaps a new smaller form factor the same way as AA batteries.    They have the advantage of being rechargeable and also having a very low self discharge rate compared to say, Ni-MH.   Ideally a new form factor that is also designed to be handled by the average joe would maybe be in order.  Something with a built in fuse perhaps so that even if you short it out it's not going to explode.  Maybe a poly fuse?

--- End quote ---

You can buy an AA size protected LiIon today.  $8.00

I like them, but resisted using them.  I think my wife (or myself) will probably get them mixed up and try to stuff two of them into something that expects two 2x1.2V and be blasted with 2x3.7V.  Bye bye equipment.

Nitecore NL1485 14500 850mAh 3.7V Protected Lithium Ion (Li-ion).  I consider Nitecore a reputable brand, but that is an untested opinion only.
https://www.batteryjunction.com/nitecore-nl1485-14500-battery.html?msclkid=2f519302cf2b1fd9a729cc88bc219d36
Red Squirrel:

--- Quote from: Rick Law on October 17, 2020, 04:35:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on October 16, 2020, 08:46:10 am ---I wish everything would just switch to using lithium ion cells.  Basically treat protected 18650 or perhaps a new smaller form factor the same way as AA batteries.    They have the advantage of being rechargeable and also having a very low self discharge rate compared to say, Ni-MH.   Ideally a new form factor that is also designed to be handled by the average joe would maybe be in order.  Something with a built in fuse perhaps so that even if you short it out it's not going to explode.  Maybe a poly fuse?

--- End quote ---

You can buy an AA size protected LiIon today.  $8.00

I like them, but resisted using them.  I think my wife (or myself) will probably get them mixed up and try to stuff two of them into something that expects two 2x1.2V and be blasted with 2x3.7V.  Bye bye equipment.

Nitecore NL1485 14500 850mAh 3.7V Protected Lithium Ion (Li-ion).  I consider Nitecore a reputable brand, but that is an untested opinion only.
https://www.batteryjunction.com/nitecore-nl1485-14500-battery.html?msclkid=2f519302cf2b1fd9a729cc88bc219d36

--- End quote ---

Yeah but I'm thinking make products actually designed to just take straight lithium cells, simpler that way and make it standard.  The lithium AA have active circuitry to bring the voltage down so more subject to potential failure.  Though I guess the same can be said for protected lithium cells they have active circuitry too, though much simpler.
Rick Law:

--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on October 17, 2020, 04:43:54 am ---...
Yeah but I'm thinking make products actually designed to just take straight lithium cells, simpler that way and make it standard.  The lithium AA have active circuitry to bring the voltage down so more subject to potential failure.  Though I guess the same can be said for protected lithium cells they have active circuitry too, though much simpler.

--- End quote ---

If more products are designed for it, that would be nice.

For the 2xAA or the 2xDD, often, I try to just see how it works with a single 3.7V LiIon.  My emergency radio (2xDD) is now running on an 18650.  The 2xAA emergency radio, well, I could use one of those 14500, but reluctant for reasons I already said in prior reply.

If just more products can be made to function down to say 2V, then the 2xAA or 2xAAA can run nicely from NiMH.  Or, we should revive Alkaline recharge cells that really put out 1.5V, and rework it to have hundreds instead of tens of cycles, that would help too. 
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