Author Topic: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries  (Read 13920 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline capt bullshot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3033
  • Country: de
    • Mostly useless stuff, but nice to have: wunderkis.de
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2020, 06:48:00 pm »
Sub 1000mAh NiCd cells are often used in low power solar lamps (here in NA they are actual AA or AAA cells rather than those tiny soldered in button cells you have over there). I keep a little box of them around to swap out when one fails (also has a few NiMH and LiFePO cells). Yes, I know you should not store NiCd cells discharged, but I don't have a charger short of my bench supply, so I just chuck them when they get to 0.0V (they are cheap crap anyway).

Wait a second please ... For NiCd cells, the best way to store them long term is "fully discharged". Even better is to discharge them fully on purpose before storing them, this can be easily done by connecting a suitable resistor across the cell while in storage. A NiCd cell stored this way will be in usable to good shape after many years of storage. If put to storage in charged state, a NiCd cell will degrade to e.g. increased internal resistance or less usable capacity.

But ... Don't do this to NiMH cells, it's the best way to kill them quickly. These should be put to storage in fully charged state and checked / recharged at some intervals.

Safety devices hinder evolution
 

Offline bdunham7

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8175
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2020, 06:48:30 pm »
I know many of you are satisfied with your rechargeable batteries, but until the last few years I have not found any that satisfied me.  The technologies have changed over time.  NiCads were a disaster on life and bad for the environment.  NiMH are better on life, but haven't really filled the bill.  The Li chemistry batteries used in power tools have finally achieved useful life, but are incredibly expensive.  How many of you are totally happy with the rechargeables in your laptops or cell phones.  They meet the use case, but are often a primary reason for replacing the machine.

For a wide variety of applications the alkaline cell is just more user friendly.  In spite of its known faults.  Rechargeables do meet a need in some applications.  Usually high current, high use things like toys and electric shavers, but the field is wide open for a really good rechargeable battery.

I think some early--and perhaps current--underperforming products have skewed perceptions a bit.  I've likely bought my last alkaline batteries ever, at least in AAA/AA/C/D/9V sizes.  Some, especially the D size, may have more capacity than NiMH, but when you factor in the leak risk, there's just no realistic use case for them IMO.  Hopefully I've also thrown away my last battery-leak damaged device, which was a nice MagLite ruined by Ray-O-Vacs that were a bit past their marked expiration date (R-O-V are sticklers about the date--no warranty for me...)

For AAA/AA, Eneloops will replace every alkaline with minimal inconvenience.  They're lasting well over a year between charges in remotes, etc.  The only exceptions are those few things that are set aside and rarely used or never used except in emergencies, have zero draw when off and are really needed when you need them--and those get Energizer Ultimate Lithium.  Also, one remote I have with an LCD display likes 3.6V much better than 2.4V, so it gets these too.

For C/D, Tenergy Centura works perfectly and they hold a charge for quite a while--not a full charge, perhaps, but you can put them in rarely used tool or Scopemeter and it will work when you pull it out a year later.  My cat feeder has been going 6 months on a set of these.  Just be aware that Tenergy has a bit of a higher defect rate than Eneloop, so you will have to test them all and cull the weak ones.  I've only had one slightly substandard C cell, but a few more of the AAA/AA Premium (not Centura LSD) ones were lower capacity and probably defective.

For 9V, Energizer Lithium again for anything that is even slightly inconvenient to replace--smoke alarms, DMMs that have screws on the cover, etc.  I haven't found any really great 9V NiMH, but I haven't much use for them either.

I don't know what the big deal is about charging and storing.  Your alkaline batteries need space in a closet to sit there and leak in their packages, so how hard is it to set up a simple charger and rack for your rechargeables?  All you need is a few spares and you are just as ready to go as if you had alkalines.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 06:50:21 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3688
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2020, 08:00:44 pm »
BTW, it is possible to recover (some) MagLites with battery leakage. The hardest part is pushing the cells out by tapping a punch onto the switch assembly, which must then be repaired.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2020, 08:09:27 pm »
I think some early--and perhaps current--underperforming products have skewed perceptions a bit.  I've likely bought my last alkaline batteries ever, at least in AAA/AA/C/D/9V sizes.  Some, especially the D size, may have more capacity than NiMH, but when you factor in the leak risk, there's just no realistic use case for them IMO.  Hopefully I've also thrown away my last battery-leak damaged device, which was a nice MagLite ruined by Ray-O-Vacs that were a bit past their marked expiration date (R-O-V are sticklers about the date--no warranty for me...)

For AAA/AA, Eneloops will replace every alkaline with minimal inconvenience.  They're lasting well over a year between charges in remotes, etc.  The only exceptions are those few things that are set aside and rarely used or never used except in emergencies, have zero draw when off and are really needed when you need them--and those get Energizer Ultimate Lithium.  Also, one remote I have with an LCD display likes 3.6V much better than 2.4V, so it gets these too.


Eneloop was the breakthrough that did it for me. Prior to those I would have agreed that rechargeable batteries just could not match disposable alkalines in any application other than high drain toys and other devices that are used frequently and consume batteries quickly. Use old fashioned rechargeable cells in a flashlight and you'd find it dead whenever you actually needed it. Eneloops solved the self discharge problem and suddenly NiMH cells became practical to use in flashlights, radios, label printers, thermometers, and all manner of other low draw or infrequently used devices.
 

Offline bdunham7

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8175
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2020, 08:10:17 pm »
BTW, it is possible to recover (some) MagLites with battery leakage. The hardest part is pushing the cells out by tapping a punch onto the switch assembly, which must then be repaired.

Oh, I tried.  I put way too much time into it too.  I screwed a slide-hammer puller into each cell and yanked them all out one at a time after a 24 hour soak in water.  I needed to do that just to see what cells they were.  I actually got it to work, sort of, but the electrolyte had eaten the case almost all the way through and had gotten into the light bulb holder as well--it could not be unscrewed without breaking it.  And the switch was eaten up too, even though it still worked.  The worst part was the light worked when I put it away 6 months prior and the batteries date expired in the interim.  They timed it perfectly.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2020, 08:17:14 pm »
Any company, including 'Eveready' etc, can EASILY make normal 'disposable' batteries last
10 times longer!, but deliberately DONT due to simple economics for the company!!!   :box:

Find a way to do that and you'll be wealthy almost overnight. A tenfold increase in capacity of any battery technology would be a scientific breakthrough that would be front page news. A company that developed such a battery could patent the technology, charge 5 times as much and rake in billions.

Frankly I think you're just talking out your ass.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline Circlotron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3362
  • Country: au
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2020, 10:42:42 pm »
Any company, including 'Eveready' etc, can EASILY make normal 'disposable' batteries last
10 times longer!, but deliberately DONT due to simple economics for the company!!!   :box:

Find a way to do that and you'll be wealthy almost overnight. A tenfold increase in capacity of any battery technology would be a scientific breakthrough that would be front page news. A company that developed such a battery could patent the technology, charge 5 times as much and rake in billions.

Frankly I think you're just talking out your ass.
Maybe he means ten times longer shelf life.
 

Offline rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3667
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2020, 11:06:22 pm »
Or ten times longer before they leak.
 
The following users thanked this post: NiHaoMike

Online themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3264
  • Country: gb
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2020, 12:06:12 am »
we had the answer back in the 80's just recharge your "disposable" batterys http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1989/h142.html
 

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3688
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2020, 12:30:43 am »
I have tried some experiments with recharging alkaline AAs (not Duracells, that would be futile, but Hitachi Maxells). Even when using very slow charging at 100 mA, and a very conservative termination of 1.55 V, there was slight leakage on 1 cell out of 4. The alkaline cells that were intended for recharging would have had different geometry to handle gas generation and so on, and even those were prone to leakage, one reason they didn't last long on the market.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2020, 12:40:07 am »
I also did some experiments with recharging alkalines with similar results. I recall I was able to achieve reasonable success if I only ran them down to around 90% before topping them off but ultimately it was more hassle than it was worth. I remember the rechargeable alkaline cells that were claimed to be good for about 25 cycles but between the higher cost of the cells and the expensive special charger they required it never seemed economical.

As for shelf life, I don't need them to last decades, but it would be nice if leakage prior to the "best by" date was an extremely rare occurrence rather than practically the norm. Back in the 80s-90s I don't remember ever having that happen, Duracells were good quality back then too.
 

Offline Raj

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 701
  • Country: in
  • Self taught, experimenter, noob(ish)
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2020, 07:57:42 am »
I've made my own 10 button Tv remote 8 months ago and replaced it's battery 9v battery with an 18650 after 2 months of use. I have not recharged it since. So a fully charged 18650 lasts 3 times longer than zinc 9v. pretty satisfactory.
 
Every year we throw billions of empty batteries in landfills.

Many ideas have been discussed over the years, many projects have been drafted (e.g.: AA cells with Micro-USB charging feature), yet still every remote of the planet keeps eating standard AA/AAA cells.

In your opinion, why is this obsolete piece of technology so difficult to eradicate? Is the problem on the technical side or more on the political side?

Thank you in advance for all your thoughts.
I would sin-tax em if i were a dictator, while forcing companies to make their devices not only with replaceable battery, but forcing them to share a battery type among each other. Imagine, if you could put apple's 4000mAh battery into samsung or vice versa. Who gives a s#*t about  phone thicknesses.

But the main problem isn't the dispose-ability of battery, but the fact it's quite expensive to collect and separate batteries when there are so many people who know jack-s#*t about em


I think this is completely unfounded. It is much more expensive even in the long term to use rechargeables than disposables.

Quick math:

8x AA Rechargeable + charger = £22.22 (£2.775 per cell)
100x AA Disposable = £21.99 (£0.21 per cell)

This means a rechargeable cell costs roughly 13 times more than a disposable.

In the most common use for AA batteries (remote controls), batteries last 1-2 years; to get your money's worth out of a rechargeable set you'd have to use the same set for about 20 years. There are no rechargeables with a lifetime of 20 years of continuous duty, even the TV's average life cycle is 7.5 years, the charger will probably break or get lost many times by then. And you also have to live with not using the TV remote for 8-12 hours because the batteries are charging, every few months, for 20 years.

You are trolling, right? Because you have picked exactly the one use case where rechargeable batteries are a poor choice because of poor self-discharge behavior and low current requirements.  And built your entire argument on that  :palm:

AA cells are used in tons of other things than clocks and TV remotes - many toys (e.g. Legos, Furbys, ...), some cheap cameras, wireless game controllers (e.g. Xbox, Oculus Quest, Wii ...), some home appliances use them (various mini vaccuum cleaners, electric potato peelers, etc.).

If you have kids and they have a game console that uses a game controller powered by AA cells, you will realize the advantage of having recheargeables on hand pretty quickly. E.g. my Quest goes through a set of batteries in the controllers every few days when I am using it regularly. And no, an integrated lithium battery wouldn't be better - AA cell you can swap and continue playing, with a non-replaceable battery you are SOL until it recharges, so Oculus (and Nintendo before them) knew exactly why they decided to use AAs instead.

Kid's stuff are mostly AA powered cause I think, China doesn't have much skill with using li-polys... I've seen far too many  "ipod nano" clones rc toys, specially those made by silverlite (pretty popular where I live) with ballooned batteries. And when they die, you need to know soldering to replace em. Thus very few people buy em and go for AA model instead.

My Tecsun shortwave radio (PL-310ET) takes 3 AA batteries. You can choose between 2 different modes... either to put in regular batteries or set it to NiMH batteries. When you set it to NiMH batteries, it lets you charge them inside the radio through the mini USB port!



Great solution to use standard AA size NiMH (and not some custom internal battery pack). This way I can easily swap them out with a new set of charged batteries if needed, or plug it in the wall to charge them in the radio (while the radio is still on even)! I wish more devices were designed like that!

Same for fuji cameras, which can work on voltages of anywhere between 3.8-6v. This allows you to power them directly from power bank.
Too bad that the company wants to sell you an adapter (a plastic with 2 metal nubs connected to a wire) for allowing you to do so. I said f it to it and i'll be making one out of delrin and bronze
1015042-0
Same goes for their rr-80 remote. I saw it's schematic online and made myself a wired copy and I already have a wireless one in the making.


About wall clocks having AA, I'm slowly replacing them with my own PoE IoT (local network) clocks cause the standard quarts clocks are too inaccurate for my taste (they go off by 5 minutes every month, donno why so much deviation.



Remotes are by far the most common use for AA / AAA cells. Other common uses also have the same profile, low power long life: clocks, thermostats, doorbells, sensors, wireless mice / keyboards etc. The recent game controllers from Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are rechargeable now, digital cameras have made the switch long time ago and all the other stuff is a small market comparatively.

The only area where it might be more economical to use rechargeables is with toys. Even if the number of users is low (1 in 10 households ?) the use is quite intense for a few years, so it's probably more cost effective to use rechargeables.

Too bad. most of those console remotes are with hard to replace batteries, unlike 8bitdo.

We’ve got a wireless keyboard near the tv pc and it has solar cells on it. Been going okay for maybe ten years. Never have to put it by the window, just leave it sitting in the middle of the room. Might take a bit of extra space, but a remote could also have them.
10 years? at first I thought did such a thing exist back then, then I realized time moved on and I stayed behind :p.
But my 5 year old rapoo mouse is pretty fine for me...even though I had to change the wheel encoder and a button nub (not the whole button, since it wore off from friction of wheel rubbing it) inside of the mouse. I charge their NiMh every 3 months
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 08:46:50 am by Raj »
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13156
  • Country: ch
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2020, 03:39:50 pm »
Not sure if anyone brought up NiCd batteries yet... they also have benefits in certain applications. While many people think Lithium variants have supplanted everything, NiCd are still used in a lot of devices. They are quite resilient, usually sit on a trickle-charger 24-7 and ready for use when needed. I have NiCd's in devices over 20 years old that I still use, fairly forgiving and have their applications. Many home appliances like shavers, toothbrushes, cordless phones, drills, vacuums, etc... use these. Also one of my old Tamiya 1980's era remote control cars uses a 7.2v NiCd pack, still performing after over 30 years.

Unfortunately many appliances use non-standard NiCd battery sizes or create serially-connected "packs" of batteries soldered together and wrapped in some plastic (or hidden inside the device) with some custom wire connector. One of the cells in the middle of the pack may get bad, or need individual reconditioning. If you could separate the pack, or if the device allowed you to insert individual cells you could likely find the culprit, recondition or replace the bad cell and keep using it for much longer.

I think we all understand that different battery technologies exist and persist because each has different applications for which they are most optimal. There is no "ideal" rechargeable yet that fits every single situation, hence the need for both one-use and rechargeable energy sources. Banning is not an option, but educating users and controlling the waste stream is the key.

I personally test out all my batteries (especially from the high-drain devices) at the end of their useful life and will typically re-purpose them into lower-drain devices (like remotes) that typically sit on standby. Usually the battery voltage in a high-drain device will tank quickly and not be able to stay above the operating voltage (of a toy car, for example). But put it into a remote or keyboard that uses very little current draw, and the voltage coming out of the "dead" battery is still good enough to last a long time.   
NiCd has been nearly entirely replaced by NiMH for those applications. (They make special ones designed for trickle charging.) And in many cases, even lithium ion.

The EU Battery Directive prohibits NiCd in pretty much everything except alarm and medical batteries, so they’re not used in shavers, etc any more.
 

Online SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15795
  • Country: fr
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2020, 04:02:28 pm »
Just a thought, but I don't think banning non-rechargeable (primary) batteries would be a good idea at all, nor would it lead to something better for the environment. I'm almost convinced it would be the opposite.

I think points why have already been made.

- Primary batteries, at least the common alkaline ones, now that mercury has been banned in most countries I know of, are a lot safer for the environment than rechargeable batteries.
- They also are easier, and consume less power, to manufacture.
- Unless very severely abused, they have no tendency to inflate or worse, explode.
- Their shelf life is usually much longer. Corollary is, if you can find some that have been stored, even for a rather long time, they are immediately operational. Can be a life saver. Related fact is that rechargeable batteries are likely to be discharged at the very moment you need them. Especially true for less often used items.
- (Another related point is that recharging batteries IS an annoying dependency. It may be ok for a couple items (your phone for instance), but imagine you now have to recharge all of your electric items on a regular basis. You're becoming slave of your own gear somehow.)
- Related to the above, it's unclear whether the overall net outcome (in terms of environment) is better for rechargeable batteries. May be in some cases, but in the grand scheme of things, I absolutely don't know (and I'm not the only one.) Likely very much depends on the application, but replacing all primary batteries by rechargeable batteries for all applications would likely be a problem in terms of environment, and we probably don't even have the resources for that.
 

Offline coppercone2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: us
  • $
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2020, 09:37:16 pm »
try building projects that work on disposable batteries instead of having to put charge circuits in everything, its refreshing. a new EE is like expected to struggle with fucking switching power supplies and shit now..

just enjoy linear reg + AA batteries and stop worrying about nonsense
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:39:01 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Cyberdragon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2676
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2020, 11:17:59 pm »
Sub 1000mAh NiCd cells are often used in low power solar lamps (here in NA they are actual AA or AAA cells rather than those tiny soldered in button cells you have over there). I keep a little box of them around to swap out when one fails (also has a few NiMH and LiFePO cells). Yes, I know you should not store NiCd cells discharged, but I don't have a charger short of my bench supply, so I just chuck them when they get to 0.0V (they are cheap crap anyway).

Wait a second please ... For NiCd cells, the best way to store them long term is "fully discharged". Even better is to discharge them fully on purpose before storing them, this can be easily done by connecting a suitable resistor across the cell while in storage. A NiCd cell stored this way will be in usable to good shape after many years of storage. If put to storage in charged state, a NiCd cell will degrade to e.g. increased internal resistance or less usable capacity.

But ... Don't do this to NiMH cells, it's the best way to kill them quickly. These should be put to storage in fully charged state and checked / recharged at some intervals.

Ah, I got that backwards, so they are fine then. Also, when I say I chuck them at 0V, I mean 0.000V and usually internaly shorted/leaky so won't take a charge. This usually happens with the crappy generic chinese cells. Also, the ESR on these cheap cells (the lower capacity ones) is such that they barely charge at over 30mA anyway (they are meant for trickle charging).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 05:09:02 am by Cyberdragon »
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2020, 05:04:04 am »
- Their shelf life is usually much longer. Corollary is, if you can find some that have been stored, even for a rather long time, they are immediately operational. Can be a life saver. Related fact is that rechargeable batteries are likely to be discharged at the very moment you need them. Especially true for less often used items.

That was true 25 years ago but times have changed. For more than a decade already almost all NiMH cells have been the low self discharge type, they come pre-charged and hold a substantial charge for years. I've left them in a seldom used flashlight for at least 3 years and they still had plenty of charge left. I've had brand new alkaline cells leak faster than modern NiMH cells self discharge.
 

Offline cliffyk

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 358
  • Country: us
    • PaladinMicro
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2020, 05:47:38 am »
We don't need a ban of anything, once a product's value and utility are gone it will go away by itself--like buggy whips, VCRs and dot matrix printers.

Slavery would have disappeared during the "industrial revolution" as machines replaced manual labour--the so-called "Civil War" was just a typical politically motivated government fustercluck to "fix" something that would have gone away anyway; just as automation is eliminating unskilled labour now.

"Improvise, adapt, and overcome": Human's, like most of nature;s creatures when left to their own devices, are good at that--and quite resilient; government intervention has screwed up more things than it has ever fixed...
-cliff knight-

paladinmicro.com
 

Offline capt bullshot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3033
  • Country: de
    • Mostly useless stuff, but nice to have: wunderkis.de
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2020, 09:55:52 am »
Sub 1000mAh NiCd cells are often used in low power solar lamps (here in NA they are actual AA or AAA cells rather than those tiny soldered in button cells you have over there). I keep a little box of them around to swap out when one fails (also has a few NiMH and LiFePO cells). Yes, I know you should not store NiCd cells discharged, but I don't have a charger short of my bench supply, so I just chuck them when they get to 0.0V (they are cheap crap anyway).

Wait a second please ... For NiCd cells, the best way to store them long term is "fully discharged". Even better is to discharge them fully on purpose before storing them, this can be easily done by connecting a suitable resistor across the cell while in storage. A NiCd cell stored this way will be in usable to good shape after many years of storage. If put to storage in charged state, a NiCd cell will degrade to e.g. increased internal resistance or less usable capacity.

But ... Don't do this to NiMH cells, it's the best way to kill them quickly. These should be put to storage in fully charged state and checked / recharged at some intervals.

Ah, I got that backwards, so they are fine then. Also, when I say I chuck them at 0V, I mean 0.000V and usually internaly shorted/leaky so won't take a charge. This usually happens with the crappy generic chinese cells. Also, the ESR on these cheap cells (the lower capacity ones) is such that they barely charge at over 30mA anyway (they are meant for trickle charging).
Leaky is K.O., but "internally shorted, so won't take charge" is easily fixed by applying a rather high charging current for a few seconds. Good cells are fine again afterwards. A quality NiCd cell is quite a robust thing.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 09:57:57 am by capt bullshot »
Safety devices hinder evolution
 

Online Nusa

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2418
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2020, 12:30:58 pm »
We don't need a ban of anything, once a product's value and utility are gone it will go away by itself--like buggy whips, VCRs and dot matrix printers.

Slavery would have disappeared during the "industrial revolution" as machines replaced manual labour--the so-called "Civil War" was just a typical politically motivated government fustercluck to "fix" something that would have gone away anyway; just as automation is eliminating unskilled labour now.

"Improvise, adapt, and overcome": Human's, like most of nature;s creatures when left to their own devices, are good at that--and quite resilient; government intervention has screwed up more things than it has ever fixed...

Buggy whips are still current technology for those that deal with horse teams. Apparently you aren't one of them, so that's your perception.

VCR's, true, although my neighbor still uses them for her security system.

Dot matrix is still one of the cheapest and most reliable printing technologies. Used in a number of niche applications. Like POS terminals. Or by businesses that need carbon-copy forms or continuous feed paper. Still used enough that you can buy them new, should you want one yourself.

As for slavery, if you think it no longer exists, please educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
I'd say more about your civil war/politics opinion, but this really isn't the right thread, or even the right forum, for it.
 
The following users thanked this post: Bassman59, newbrain

Online all_repair

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 726
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2020, 03:49:52 pm »
The price of Li 1.5V rechargeable has become interesting.  Soon they shall reach your shore, and US shore too (shall depend on Trump).  I got some AA and AAA from China Taobao to try.  So far is promising.
I found those Li AA that has microUSB charging very good for wireless mouse and keyboard usage.  Big mAH, and no need to hunt for charger when the batteries run weak.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2676
  • Country: us
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2020, 11:28:09 pm »
Sub 1000mAh NiCd cells are often used in low power solar lamps (here in NA they are actual AA or AAA cells rather than those tiny soldered in button cells you have over there). I keep a little box of them around to swap out when one fails (also has a few NiMH and LiFePO cells). Yes, I know you should not store NiCd cells discharged, but I don't have a charger short of my bench supply, so I just chuck them when they get to 0.0V (they are cheap crap anyway).

Wait a second please ... For NiCd cells, the best way to store them long term is "fully discharged". Even better is to discharge them fully on purpose before storing them, this can be easily done by connecting a suitable resistor across the cell while in storage. A NiCd cell stored this way will be in usable to good shape after many years of storage. If put to storage in charged state, a NiCd cell will degrade to e.g. increased internal resistance or less usable capacity.

But ... Don't do this to NiMH cells, it's the best way to kill them quickly. These should be put to storage in fully charged state and checked / recharged at some intervals.

Ah, I got that backwards, so they are fine then. Also, when I say I chuck them at 0V, I mean 0.000V and usually internaly shorted/leaky so won't take a charge. This usually happens with the crappy generic chinese cells. Also, the ESR on these cheap cells (the lower capacity ones) is such that they barely charge at over 30mA anyway (they are meant for trickle charging).
Leaky is K.O., but "internally shorted, so won't take charge" is easily fixed by applying a rather high charging current for a few seconds. Good cells are fine again afterwards. A quality NiCd cell is quite a robust thing.

These are cheap garden light batteries. They are not high quality, and physically robust but not sure about electrically. I can try next time a cell fails, but not gonna be happy if a "Xang-dong" or whatever it is cell bursts. I'll have to get an explosion containment pie dish. ;D
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline coppercone2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: us
  • $
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2020, 06:55:54 am »
up next : how to recycle wall paint

(this is how you trash devices fucking with gas pressures in cheaply made vessels filled with caustic soda)

its not a conspiracy. its thin walled high pressure corrosive materials confinement for under 1$.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:01:39 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline coppercone2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: us
  • $
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2020, 06:58:18 am »
We don't need a ban of anything, once a product's value and utility are gone it will go away by itself--like buggy whips, VCRs and dot matrix printers.

Slavery would have disappeared during the "industrial revolution" as machines replaced manual labour--the so-called "Civil War" was just a typical politically motivated government fustercluck to "fix" something that would have gone away anyway; just as automation is eliminating unskilled labour now.

"Improvise, adapt, and overcome": Human's, like most of nature;s creatures when left to their own devices, are good at that--and quite resilient; government intervention has screwed up more things than it has ever fixed...

have you heard of the cubical before? they would just put a bed in one of those and you have functional slavery until .... when?

And on a more serious note, you should study the German slave industry during WW2. It was alot bigger then just the famous camps. Study satellite camps. They were quite industrial, and productive. You sound extremely uneducated of history. They managed to make use of slaves in applications as advanced as chemical analysis laboratories and precision machine works. Basically you save on employee pay and OSHA stuff related to long term life expectancy (so expect unsafe work with radiation, poor PPE, bad exposure limits, etc). Anything more complicated then 'it blinded me so I can't work tomorrow' is of no concern at that point.

Seriously this is some delusional uneducated shit that makes you sound evil. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:13:03 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20357
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2020, 11:43:45 am »
The 'problem' I have at times with 'AA' 'Rechargeables' is in the likes of some Cameras etc.
Rechargeables are typically 1.2v instead of 1.5v. So "Low Battery" comes on too early!!!  :-\
That's because the device is poorly designed and depending on the current draw, could be wasting as much as half the capacity of alkaline cells. A properly designed device should operated down to at least 1V per cell. I hate this kind of junk.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf