General > General Technical Chat
Ban of non-rechargeable batteries
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Cyberdragon:

--- Quote from: capt bullshot on July 01, 2020, 06:48:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 30, 2020, 03:41:35 pm ---Sub 1000mAh NiCd cells are often used in low power solar lamps (here in NA they are actual AA or AAA cells rather than those tiny soldered in button cells you have over there). I keep a little box of them around to swap out when one fails (also has a few NiMH and LiFePO cells). Yes, I know you should not store NiCd cells discharged, but I don't have a charger short of my bench supply, so I just chuck them when they get to 0.0V (they are cheap crap anyway).

--- End quote ---

Wait a second please ... For NiCd cells, the best way to store them long term is "fully discharged". Even better is to discharge them fully on purpose before storing them, this can be easily done by connecting a suitable resistor across the cell while in storage. A NiCd cell stored this way will be in usable to good shape after many years of storage. If put to storage in charged state, a NiCd cell will degrade to e.g. increased internal resistance or less usable capacity.

But ... Don't do this to NiMH cells, it's the best way to kill them quickly. These should be put to storage in fully charged state and checked / recharged at some intervals.

--- End quote ---

Ah, I got that backwards, so they are fine then. Also, when I say I chuck them at 0V, I mean 0.000V and usually internaly shorted/leaky so won't take a charge. This usually happens with the crappy generic chinese cells. Also, the ESR on these cheap cells (the lower capacity ones) is such that they barely charge at over 30mA anyway (they are meant for trickle charging).
james_s:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 02, 2020, 04:02:28 pm ---- Their shelf life is usually much longer. Corollary is, if you can find some that have been stored, even for a rather long time, they are immediately operational. Can be a life saver. Related fact is that rechargeable batteries are likely to be discharged at the very moment you need them. Especially true for less often used items.

--- End quote ---

That was true 25 years ago but times have changed. For more than a decade already almost all NiMH cells have been the low self discharge type, they come pre-charged and hold a substantial charge for years. I've left them in a seldom used flashlight for at least 3 years and they still had plenty of charge left. I've had brand new alkaline cells leak faster than modern NiMH cells self discharge.
cliffyk:
We don't need a ban of anything, once a product's value and utility are gone it will go away by itself--like buggy whips, VCRs and dot matrix printers.

Slavery would have disappeared during the "industrial revolution" as machines replaced manual labour--the so-called "Civil War" was just a typical politically motivated government fustercluck to "fix" something that would have gone away anyway; just as automation is eliminating unskilled labour now.

"Improvise, adapt, and overcome": Human's, like most of nature;s creatures when left to their own devices, are good at that--and quite resilient; government intervention has screwed up more things than it has ever fixed...
capt bullshot:

--- Quote from: Cyberdragon on July 02, 2020, 11:17:59 pm ---
--- Quote from: capt bullshot on July 01, 2020, 06:48:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 30, 2020, 03:41:35 pm ---Sub 1000mAh NiCd cells are often used in low power solar lamps (here in NA they are actual AA or AAA cells rather than those tiny soldered in button cells you have over there). I keep a little box of them around to swap out when one fails (also has a few NiMH and LiFePO cells). Yes, I know you should not store NiCd cells discharged, but I don't have a charger short of my bench supply, so I just chuck them when they get to 0.0V (they are cheap crap anyway).

--- End quote ---

Wait a second please ... For NiCd cells, the best way to store them long term is "fully discharged". Even better is to discharge them fully on purpose before storing them, this can be easily done by connecting a suitable resistor across the cell while in storage. A NiCd cell stored this way will be in usable to good shape after many years of storage. If put to storage in charged state, a NiCd cell will degrade to e.g. increased internal resistance or less usable capacity.

But ... Don't do this to NiMH cells, it's the best way to kill them quickly. These should be put to storage in fully charged state and checked / recharged at some intervals.

--- End quote ---

Ah, I got that backwards, so they are fine then. Also, when I say I chuck them at 0V, I mean 0.000V and usually internaly shorted/leaky so won't take a charge. This usually happens with the crappy generic chinese cells. Also, the ESR on these cheap cells (the lower capacity ones) is such that they barely charge at over 30mA anyway (they are meant for trickle charging).

--- End quote ---
Leaky is K.O., but "internally shorted, so won't take charge" is easily fixed by applying a rather high charging current for a few seconds. Good cells are fine again afterwards. A quality NiCd cell is quite a robust thing.
Nusa:

--- Quote from: cliffyk on July 03, 2020, 05:47:38 am ---We don't need a ban of anything, once a product's value and utility are gone it will go away by itself--like buggy whips, VCRs and dot matrix printers.

Slavery would have disappeared during the "industrial revolution" as machines replaced manual labour--the so-called "Civil War" was just a typical politically motivated government fustercluck to "fix" something that would have gone away anyway; just as automation is eliminating unskilled labour now.

"Improvise, adapt, and overcome": Human's, like most of nature;s creatures when left to their own devices, are good at that--and quite resilient; government intervention has screwed up more things than it has ever fixed...

--- End quote ---

Buggy whips are still current technology for those that deal with horse teams. Apparently you aren't one of them, so that's your perception.

VCR's, true, although my neighbor still uses them for her security system.

Dot matrix is still one of the cheapest and most reliable printing technologies. Used in a number of niche applications. Like POS terminals. Or by businesses that need carbon-copy forms or continuous feed paper. Still used enough that you can buy them new, should you want one yourself.

As for slavery, if you think it no longer exists, please educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
I'd say more about your civil war/politics opinion, but this really isn't the right thread, or even the right forum, for it.
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