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“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”

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Faringdon:
Thanks, for those who have nowhere to charge up a BEV, Hydrogen FCEV is the way forward...its faster to fill up.
Also, there will be Gov grants for HFCEV, because its way too dangerous to depend only  on lithium (as in BEV).
Sorry but, IMHO, I guess anyone who can drive for free on solar charged BEV, is going to want that to become the status quo.

PlainName:

--- Quote from: wraper on November 14, 2021, 09:45:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2021, 09:23:51 pm ---
--- Quote ---Batteries to day already meet 80% of most people’s private motoring  needs
--- End quote ---

How will the other 20% manage?

--- End quote ---
When there will be more charging infrastructure due to BEV replacing ICE and a little bit of advancement on the range, 100% will be covered.

--- End quote ---

Or not. I often need to do 200+mile journeys and then be available on a moments notice to do the same again. A charging station here and then ain't going to get me going as quickly as popping into a garage and shoving 30l in a tank. I imagine I am not unique but just a very small sample of your 20%.

It's a big enough problem that I understand when all that's available to buy are EV, essential services such as ambulance and fire will still be allowed to use diesel.

tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on November 14, 2021, 07:33:17 pm ---Can you provide a reference to this? I can't find anything related to this limitation. This report https://www.osti.gov/pages/servlets/purl/1389635 even seems to show the opposite effect; at low temperatures the filling goes faster.

--- End quote ---

Yup, gotta eat my hat on this one, I was remembering it wrong.  It's been some time since I looked into this in my defence |O.  It gets *slower* when hotter (which, I suppose makes more sense.)  Here's the SAE J2601 chart for a 70MPa refuelling solution (which Mirai and most other conventional hydrogen EVs use - 35MPa is the older system.)

So ~5 minutes up to about 0C, then at 25C about 10-11 minutes, at 40C up to 21 minutes and 45C you'll be waiting 29 minutes (21 minutes+ is into Supercharger stop time, so I guess hydrogen EVs may be more popular in colder countries, if they take off.) 

This assumes the station is fully "recharged", of course. 

I find it interesting there's no SAE J2601 spec for <2MPa.  Is this an enforced 'hydrogen buffer' in the tank to keep the system happy that there is no leak?

NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2021, 10:20:18 pm ---Or not. I often need to do 200+mile journeys and then be available on a moments notice to do the same again. A charging station here and then ain't going to get me going as quickly as popping into a garage and shoving 30l in a tank. I imagine I am not unique but just a very small sample of your 20%.

It's a big enough problem that I understand when all that's available to buy are EV, essential services such as ambulance and fire will still be allowed to use diesel.

--- End quote ---
It all goes back to plug in hybrid plus biofuel as being the most sustainable option for now that works near optimally for both short and long distance.

james_s:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2021, 09:23:51 pm ---How will the other 20% manage?

--- End quote ---

The same way they manage now, internal combustion engines. Maybe they'll be fueled by gasoline, maybe diesel, maybe biofuels, maybe alcohol, CNG, propane, whatever. My bet is that gasoline and diesel engines will be with us into the foreseeable future, probably at some point most of the remaining fuel powered cars will be hybrids. I don't know why some people seem to this this has to be a case of all or nothing. If your needs are such that an EV doesn't work for you, don't buy one, it really is that simple. We are a long, long way from everyone whose needs are met by EVs having one. Until we reach that level of saturation it's stupid to even worry about it.

I do think we will eventually see EVs with 500, 800, maybe even 1,000 miles of range or more for those who need it, and charging will keep getting faster up to a point. That is a low priority right now though, very few people need that much range and there are ample choices for those who do. A majority of the cars on the road are still liquid fueled, those are not all going to just vanish overnight. I'm fairly confident that all of us here will be dead well before ICE powered cars are gone.

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