General > General Technical Chat

“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”

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wraper:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2021, 10:20:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: wraper on November 14, 2021, 09:45:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2021, 09:23:51 pm ---
--- Quote ---Batteries to day already meet 80% of most people’s private motoring  needs
--- End quote ---

How will the other 20% manage?

--- End quote ---
When there will be more charging infrastructure due to BEV replacing ICE and a little bit of advancement on the range, 100% will be covered.

--- End quote ---

Or not. I often need to do 200+mile journeys and then be available on a moments notice to do the same again. A charging station here and then ain't going to get me going as quickly as popping into a garage and shoving 30l in a tank. I imagine I am not unique but just a very small sample of your 20%.

It's a big enough problem that I understand when all that's available to buy are EV, essential services such as ambulance and fire will still be allowed to use diesel.

--- End quote ---
You are not unique enough for existing EVs to not cover your needs. There are existing EV with 400+ mile range. And even if you buy a cheaper one like model 3/Y (with something like 350 mile range), 10 minutes of supercharging will give you another 150-200 miles of range.

Marco:

--- Quote from: MadScientist on November 14, 2021, 07:49:19 pm ---No need for loads of street chargers.

--- End quote ---

Maybe within the context of a dictatorship, unfortunately we live in a democracy and saddling poorfags with range anxiety and the inconvenience of slow fast charging (it would have to be done with appointment too, so doubly inconvenient) is not going to go over well at the ballot box. So yeah, there is a need for loads of street chargers.

We'll need a huge amount of green hydrogen for reducing and industrial process heating regardless if we are to meet decarbonization deadlines, we will likely need huge amounts of hydrogen for seasonal/emergency storage too. If that happens it becomes likely some other uses will piggy back on the infrastructure needed. Maybe not personal transport, but for trucking and airplanes liquid hydrogen could be an option if it can be made cheaply enough.

ogden:
What about energy storage (in)efficiency of hydrogen+fuel_cell? AFAIK not only initial costs but also operational are higher compared to battery EV.

Marco:
The extension cord to connect a jetliner to the grid in flight isn't free either.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---It all goes back to plug in hybrid plus biofuel as being the most sustainable option for now that works near optimally for both short and long distance.
--- End quote ---

Yes, I'd like a hybrid.


--- Quote ---I don't know why some people seem to this this has to be a case of all or nothing.
--- End quote ---

Because that's how it's being sold to us. In London's ultra-low emission zone hybrids are classed the same as petrol and diesel. They get a free pass on the congestion charge, but only because they were the clean option when that was brought in. It is clearly full EV or filthy polluter - no middle way.

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