General > General Technical Chat
“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”
wraper:
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2021, 06:25:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: ogden on November 15, 2021, 06:17:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: Marco on November 15, 2021, 10:14:51 am ---The extension cord to connect a jetliner to the grid in flight isn't free either.
--- End quote ---
Your point is what exactly? - That consumers do not care about "fuel" cost? Think again. It's 47.5 EUR to fill 500km range Toyota Miray compared to 15 EUR 500km range Tesla Model3 (2017 price).
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That depends on where your electricity comes from. 500km range from a super charger along the highway costs you 80 euro!
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Utter BS https://tm3een.home.blog/2021/06/06/kwh-prices-at-european-tesla-superchargers-20210606/
--- Quote ---Tesla Supercharger prices (as of June 6, 2021):
Austria = €0.33 / kWh
Belgium = €0.31 / kWh
Croatia = HRK 2.80 / kWh
Czech Republic = CZK 8.40 / kWh
Danmark = kr. 2.95 / kWh
Finland = €0.32-0.39 / kWh (variabel)
France = €0.28-0.35 / kWh (variabel)
Germany = €0.37 / kWh
Hungary = nihil
Ireland = €0.36-0.37 / kWh (variabel)
Italy = €0.41 / kWh
Liechtenstein = CHF 0.27 / kWh
Luxemburg = €0.29 / kWh
Netherlands = €0.25 / kWh
Norway = kr. 2.25-3.15 / kWh (variabel)
Poland = PLN 1.40 / kWh
Portugal = €0.34-0.37 / kWh (variabel)
Romania = nihil
Slovenia = €0.34 / kWh
Slowakia = €0.29-0.34 / kWh (variabel)
Spain = €0.29-0.30 / kWh (variabel)
Sweden = SEK 3.15-4.40 / kWh (variabel)
Switzerland = CHF 0.32-0.43 / kWh (variabel)
United Kingdom = £0.29-0.33 / kWh (variabel)
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Marco:
--- Quote from: ogden on November 15, 2021, 06:17:41 pm ---Your point is what exactly? - That consumers do not care about "fuel" cost?
--- End quote ---
My point is that expensive beats impossible, green hydrogen will first come into very large scale use where it's expensive but the alternatives defacto impossible (steel production without coke, possibly storage/flight etc). Where the relative price for it goes after that, well that's anyone's guess. The cost of intermittently generated electricity needed at will and storable hydrogen won't necessarily remain the same going forward.
Miyuki:
I once run out of gas and was simply towed to the nearest gas station. Quick and easy, problem solved. Just tow to charger station.
I have like a 50km/year free tow in road assistance for about 3€ a month
And for battery life, most statistics show that battery life in, for example, Teslas has a usable life of 500-1000 Thousand km. It is more than most ICE have and the rest of the car will be pretty worn after this time.
Sal Ammoniac:
The CEO of Toyota is pushing internal combustion engines burning hydrogen as a carbon-neutral power source.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-13/japan-carmakers-showcase-carbon-neutral-fuels-in-road-race
To me, that's a step backwards from EVs and fuel-cell hydrogen cars. IC engines are inefficient (think of all of the waste heat they produce), and even when they're burning hydrogen they still produce NOx pollution that needs to be dealt with using a catalytic convertor.
ogden:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on November 15, 2021, 07:17:44 pm ---Teslas has a usable life of 500-1000 Thousand km.
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Please define "usable battery life". For you crippled downto 1/3 of initial "factory range" could be possibly OK, but for me - rather not. Disclaimer: I do not say that after 1000000 km tesla battery has 1/3 range capacity. This is rather question what remaining capacity % of tesla battery after 1000000 km is.
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