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| “Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV” |
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| not1xor1:
--- Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on November 15, 2021, 07:24:46 pm ---The CEO of Toyota is pushing internal combustion engines burning hydrogen as a carbon-neutral power source. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-13/japan-carmakers-showcase-carbon-neutral-fuels-in-road-race To me, that's a step backwards from EVs and fuel-cell hydrogen cars. IC engines are inefficient (think of all of the waste heat they produce), and even when they're burning hydrogen they still produce NOx pollution that needs to be dealt with using a catalytic convertor. --- End quote --- hydrogen is still produced from fossil fuels (methane). All that hydrogen stuff is pure nonsense. In the meantime they are building a factory for new DC motors made just of copper, i.e. no rare earth elements for permanent magnets while Na-ion batteries are already in production and you get plenty of Na from the oceans... |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 15, 2021, 02:23:56 pm ---Isn't an issue with hybrids the small battery? Something like 20-mile range, which isn't that much. However, I would have thought that with the rise in petrol prices, plugging it in whenever you can would be worth a fair bit! Clearly, your neighbour earns too much and should be paying more taxes >:D --- End quote --- The range of a hybrid is determined by the capacity of the fuel tank, just like any other car. The idea of a plug in hybrid is you can drive at least partially on battery power for the short trips that represent most driving people do. You have the engine powered by conventional fuel when you need to go further. My partner has a 2002 Prius which is the first generation, it has a small NiMH battery pack and can only operate entirely on electricity under about 5mph. The rest of the time the electric motor is just there to augment the torque of a relatively small ICE and provides some immediate acceleration from a stop to give the engine time to start up. The gas engine starts and stops as needed and the whole thing works remarkably seamlessly for being an early example of the technology. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 15, 2021, 11:38:40 am ---Because that's how it's being sold to us. In London's ultra-low emission zone hybrids are classed the same as petrol and diesel. They get a free pass on the congestion charge, but only because they were the clean option when that was brought in. It is clearly full EV or filthy polluter - no middle way. --- End quote --- That's a political problem much more so than a technological problem. You get the government you vote for, or however they are appointed in your part of the world. |
| ogden:
--- Quote from: james_s on November 15, 2021, 07:56:08 pm ---My partner has a 2002 Prius which is the first generation, it has a small NiMH battery pack and can only operate entirely on electricity under about 5mph. The rest of the time the electric motor is just there to augment the torque of a relatively small ICE and provides some immediate acceleration from a stop to give the engine time to start up. The gas engine starts and stops as needed and the whole thing works remarkably seamlessly for being an early example of the technology. --- End quote --- Right. ICE of hybrids is operated at maximum efficiency mode unless you floor it. When battery full - you can continue to be stuck in the city traffic on electric motor. So even (and only) in city mode it is indeed much more efficient than traditional ICE car. On the other hand - if you usually long-range travel and don't need city only or mixed city/highway, then better get diesel car [grin] or just EV if you are sure to be immune against Range Anxiety ;) |
| Sal Ammoniac:
--- Quote from: not1xor1 on November 15, 2021, 07:52:56 pm --- --- Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on November 15, 2021, 07:24:46 pm ---The CEO of Toyota is pushing internal combustion engines burning hydrogen as a carbon-neutral power source. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-13/japan-carmakers-showcase-carbon-neutral-fuels-in-road-race To me, that's a step backwards from EVs and fuel-cell hydrogen cars. IC engines are inefficient (think of all of the waste heat they produce), and even when they're burning hydrogen they still produce NOx pollution that needs to be dealt with using a catalytic convertor. --- End quote --- hydrogen is still produced from fossil fuels (methane). All that hydrogen stuff is pure nonsense. In the meantime they are building a factory for new DC motors made just of copper, i.e. no rare earth elements for permanent magnets while Na-ion batteries are already in production and you get plenty of Na from the oceans... --- End quote --- AC induction motors don't have permanent magnets, hence no need for rare earth metals like neodymium. The Tesla Model S uses an induction motor with a pure copper rotor and it seems to be efficient enough. |
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