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“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”

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SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: TimFox on November 15, 2021, 08:59:52 pm ---If a "free" source of power should become practical (e.g., fusion), water could be electrolysed into hydrogen and oxygen at the power source and distributed through pipelines.
See  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

--- End quote ---

Of course, but at that point, we'll probably have other ways to use all this "free" power. But it's just not there, and basing major investments and strategies on something as uncertain as this while making things worse in the meantime is a questionable approach.

As the saying goes, if my aunt had a pair, I would call her my uncle.

TimFox:
That goes without saying.
My point is that should that glorious day arrive when we have "free power" from centralized plants, we need to distribute it to the points of load.
The conventional manner is electrical distribution, and there is a large infrastructure in place.
A possible manner is the existing pipeline system, where there is also a large infrastructure in place.
It is an interesting calculation to compare the distribution efficiency of the two methods, but no incentive to invest until the "free power" become available (note use of subjunctive mood).

tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2021, 09:12:51 pm ---Tesla's superchargers aren't along the highway. Look at the prices from -for example- Ionity: 0.79 euro per kWh

--- End quote ---

Ionity's high pricing is very deliberate to keep their walled garden but since they have CCS they still attract EU funding/subsidies (stupid move by the EU to not cap the rates they charge at.)

If you have a VW subscription it's ~£14/m and then £0.25/kWh.
With Hyundai it's ~£11/m then £0.28/kWh.
Mercedes throw 3 years in free subscription with the car, energy @ £0.25/kWh.
Ford is completely free for a year (£0/kWh), then for the next 4 years is @ £0.27/kWh, no announced subscription fee.

(None of these 'passes' are available if you do not own one of the respective vehicles.  No idea if/how the charging station validates that it is 'that' particular car though.)

And I suppose this isn't surprising given Ionity is majority owned by VW, Hyundai, Daimler, Ford & BMW.

It's very clearly built with the intention of making Tesla and non-Ionity "supported" EVs expensive to charge.  It'll be interesting to see how this shifts as Tesla are charging at their superchargers about the same rate, but all car manufacturers get the same rate.

SiliconWizard:
Regarding distributing hydrogen safely through pipelines, wouldn't that require major modifications to the existing ones anyway to reach any reasonable level of safety? Really wondering.

tom66:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 15, 2021, 10:34:22 pm ---Regarding distributing hydrogen safely through pipelines, wouldn't that require major modifications to the existing ones anyway to reach any reasonable level of safety? Really wondering.

--- End quote ---

What, so natural gas is a totally safe and non-explosive gas? 

One issue is existing pipelines need to be replaced if they contain certain steel, as the steel is embrittled by hydrogen.

Many of these pipelines have been replaced with plastic/composite pipes already anyway.  They are cheaper to install, more flexible, and last longer.

A secondary issue is how you maintain a dual-fuel natural gas and hydrogen grid, without running two sets of pipes.  Some infrastructure won't cope with hydrogen, but others might require pure hydrogen.  I wonder how practical mass-separating the gases would be.

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