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“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”

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tom66:

--- Quote from: ogden on November 16, 2021, 07:52:36 pm ---It's because oldskool ICE engine runs as soon as you are moving, hybrid - not always. Hybrid engines are detuned (Atkinson cycle), they run engine preferably at max efficiency mode which means mediocre RPM unless you floor it, and what's more important - "engine hours" versus "movement hours" is somewhere around 50..80% obviously depending on driving style and city/highway cycles. Hint: don't buy hybrid for long range hi-speed commute, its is waste of money. So, your 140k mile hybrid "city cycle" engine can have wear similar to engine of 70k mile generic ICE car.

--- End quote ---

Slight understated advantage of a hybrid here is that it allows a smaller powertrain to run closer to maximum power point, with the electric motor providing boost.

So my Golf GTE has a 140 hp engine and in hybrid mode the E-motor adds 50 hp.  This means the acceleration of the car is reasonable (0-60 in 6.8s) but the economy at cruise is quite good (because you don't need an under-loaded 2 litre engine to achieve that acceleration figure.)

This is despite the fact that the GTE is only a parallel hybrid, not something more sophisticated like the series-parallel planetary gearbox in the Prius.  And it isn't an Atkinson cycle; the engine is only slightly modified from the standard 1.4 TSI.

I think the ideal PHEV would be a 1.0L - 1.2L petrol engine coupled to a 100 hp electric drivetrain.  I think Mazda are/were working on that.  My suspicion is that the inflection point for BEVs has happened already though.  The VW Golf eHybrid - the modern version of my car - and the VW ID3 are practically identical in price.

james_s:

--- Quote from: tom66 on November 17, 2021, 09:13:35 am ---So my Golf GTE has a 140 hp engine and in hybrid mode the E-motor adds 50 hp.  This means the acceleration of the car is reasonable (0-60 in 6.8s) but the economy at cruise is quite good (because you don't need an under-loaded 2 litre engine to achieve that acceleration figure.)

--- End quote ---

It's funny that 0-60 in 6.8s is "reasonable", back in the 60s-70s that would have been firmly in muscle car territory and quicker than the vast majority of cars on the road.

Miyuki:

--- Quote from: james_s on November 17, 2021, 06:59:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 17, 2021, 09:13:35 am ---So my Golf GTE has a 140 hp engine and in hybrid mode the E-motor adds 50 hp.  This means the acceleration of the car is reasonable (0-60 in 6.8s) but the economy at cruise is quite good (because you don't need an under-loaded 2 litre engine to achieve that acceleration figure.)

--- End quote ---

It's funny that 0-60 in 6.8s is "reasonable", back in the 60s-70s that would have been firmly in muscle car territory and quicker than the vast majority of cars on the road.

--- End quote ---
Yeh cars under 10s tend to be considered "fast"
I have a wagon with old 97 hp diesel with 4-speed auto that is a rocket, I can feel like and race driver, half the way on full throttle  >:D
But it gets over 1000km on a full tank
They used to be consedered green back then because of so low fuel consumption

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: james_s on November 17, 2021, 06:59:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 17, 2021, 09:13:35 am ---So my Golf GTE has a 140 hp engine and in hybrid mode the E-motor adds 50 hp.  This means the acceleration of the car is reasonable (0-60 in 6.8s) but the economy at cruise is quite good (because you don't need an under-loaded 2 litre engine to achieve that acceleration figure.)

--- End quote ---

It's funny that 0-60 in 6.8s is "reasonable", back in the 60s-70s that would have been firmly in muscle car territory and quicker than the vast majority of cars on the road.

--- End quote ---

Someone owning a Golf GTE probably has some requirements in terms of performance that your average Joe does not.

james_s:

--- Quote from: Miyuki on November 17, 2021, 08:25:53 pm ---Yeh cars under 10s tend to be considered "fast"
I have a wagon with old 97 hp diesel with 4-speed auto that is a rocket, I can feel like and race driver, half the way on full throttle  >:D
But it gets over 1000km on a full tank
They used to be consedered green back then because of so low fuel consumption

--- End quote ---

My friend had an old VW Golf diesel I drove a few times, I think it was a 1983, no turbo, I remember the gas pedal was pretty much binary, you either were sat at a stop and not touching it at all, or you had it held to the floor and were waiting patiently for it to get up to speed before having to stop at the next light. I'm still a fan of diesels overall, the low fuel consumption and high torque of a turbo diesel is a winning combination. We never got many of them in cars here though.

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