General > General Technical Chat

“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”

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james_s:

--- Quote from: ejeffrey on November 18, 2021, 04:38:53 pm ---My understanding is that 20000 mi is actually probably fine for full synthetic oil in most engines and 5000 mi is total overkill (at least after the break in service).  The main problem is the oil filter not the oil itself which can break down over time depending on conditions.  If you go to a shop it makes sense to change both but if you just do it yourself changing out the oil filter and topping up the oil is fine, only draining the oil much less often.

--- End quote ---

If I waited 20,000 miles that would be several years to a decade depending on which of my cars, I think it would leak out or blow past the seals in the turbo well before that interval. Maybe it would be fine to go longer but oil is relatively cheap and turbos really cook it, especially the old oil cooled turbo on my 240, the later ones have a water jacket and run a LOT cooler.

tom66:
It is probably due to the short-cycling the engine does, but the oil change interval on the Golf GTE is half that of the standard Golf, at 1yr/10,000 mile intervals.  The electric motor periodically turns the engine over, even if not recently used, to keep parts lubricated.  About once every few minutes.

MadScientist:

--- Quote from: james_s on November 16, 2021, 07:07:28 pm ---That makes no sense at all. House charging is the single biggest benefit of an EV, you just plug it in at home and trickle charge overnight, you never have to go looking for fuel, it's just full every morning. Charging stations are for people who cannot charge at home but still want an EV, and to alleviate range anxiety and allow for the occasional longer trip. Even Tesla has stated that their intent is for most charging to occur at home, that's the whole plan. I get that not everyone can charge at home, my dad was in that category and he made use of Superchargers and destination charging to charge his Tesla but everyone I currently know who has one plugs it in at home. Home charging is an absolutely huge feature, it's fantastic, it's something that every EV owner I know loves about their car.

Seriously, I love my old gas car, but if it were possible for me to trickle fuel into it overnight in my driveway or garage and have a full tank every time I go out somewhere, I would gladly give up the ability to fill up quickly at a gas station. I absolutely hate having to go get gas, it's always some inopportune time when I realize I need it, seems like it's always either cold and windy or roasting hot out, it's always out of my way, I hate the smell of gas stations, it's probably my least favorite aspect of car ownership.

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Home charging has little future , in the uk the typical house limit is 60kw , and hence a 32 amp circuit is the max feasible limit. ( in fact for 32A you’ll need priority switching in some cases ) in fact many installers will only fit 16a EVSE in many cases.

Modern EVs currently have 60 kWh and trending towards 100 kWh batteries. , recharging 60kwh , on a 32A circuit takes 8 hours ( including taper charging ) , recharging 100kWh will be practically impossible in the typical night time available ( usually 12 -6am )

Hence home charging will be a fill-in activity

Remember the average mileage per week in the uk is very low. Most users drive short distances each day. With 60-100kWh batteries these users might only charge once a  fortnight.  These are most likely to take place at very high energy delivery sites.

Furthermore various grid studies show the primary concern of grid managers vis a vie EV charging is high density home charging at coordinated times like night time. The typically suburban estate ( with driveways ) has an electrical infrastructure simply incapable of supporting high density coordinated charging. The cost and sheer inconvenience makes it virtually impossible to upgrade this houses.

The future therefore is high energy specialised charging sites , rather exactly as petrol is done today. Home charging will be incidental.

On top of that smart metering will in time penalise home charging of EVs , both by increasing the cost of  the time of charge where  co-ordinated charging is happening , ie night time. Smart meters are largely grid/ generator promoted as they want to monetised inelastic electricity usage times. 




MadScientist:

--- Quote from: rstofer on November 16, 2021, 01:13:25 am ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 16, 2021, 12:45:53 am ---On the plus side (for the filling station) they'll have a captive audience to sell stuff to, just like the airlines get to make you walk through shopping centers en route to the aircraft (and than sit in cafes for 2 hours).

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I'll bet shopping malls are early adopters.  They are common at pharmacies around here.  But, really, there's nothing to do in a pharmacy.  But put them in a mall and watch sales grow.

--- End quote ---

No , average high energy charge times are way less then the average shopping trip, and low energy charging is far too long. The supermarket idea isn’t working and the trend is dedicated high energy sites rather like petrol filling stations. Not least because the energy feed requirements need dedicated sites. Furthermore EVs charging needs canopies and weather protection and supermarkets are not that interested

Ireland has comprehensive fast charging for 5 years. The trend has been away from shops and rather into filling station forecourts especially high throughput motorway service areas.

MadScientist:

--- Quote from: Miyuki on November 16, 2021, 09:16:51 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 16, 2021, 08:41:22 am ---
--- Quote from: Miyuki on November 16, 2021, 07:59:54 am ---So even after 1000000 km should be about 2/3 of the original capacity
That is still a reasonable range to use
And no issue when used as a second car

--- End quote ---

It's almost as if people forget that ICE engine cars don't typically last beyond 200,000 miles.

My old Ford Focus was an economical write off, the engine was burning oil at 135,000 miles.  My old Peugeot had coolant leaks in the cylinder at 115,000 miles that could be temporarily fixed with "RadSeal", but led to oil slowly making its way into the coolant.  The Japanese marques might do better, certainly.  But I still doubt they'll outlive an EV with a stable, liquid cooled battery.

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Truth most modern engines need new piston rings at about 100,000 miles
And head gasket failure is in most cases a consequence of failure in the cooling system

Both are easy to repair and parts are cheap, but takes about a day or two of service work what can be an issue and not many services do this kind of work today. They do just the easy repairs  ::)

But also there is plenty of ICE that fail to metallurgy fatigue at about 150,000-200,000
As they are engineered this way to make them cheaper while most owners do not use cars this long
ICE can be easily built to last 1,000,000 km but it does not make much economic sense as it makes it more expensive to manufacture and might slightly increase fuel consumption plus people do not like to ride in 20,30,... years old car

--- End quote ---

Modern engines last much longer then their predecessors , in my dads time an engine was clapped out at 100,000 miles, these days 200,000 is not uncommon even more , and no new engines don’t need pistons rings at 100,000 miles that’s BS.

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