General > General Technical Chat
“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”
MadScientist:
--- Quote from: Marco on November 16, 2021, 10:25:42 am ---
--- Quote from: wraper on November 16, 2021, 08:02:07 am ---It the area a filling station takes, you can install many times more charging stalls. Which are also much cheaper.
--- End quote ---
If on demand fast chargers are supposed to be the solution for everyone without a driveway that will require a significantly higher peak power delivery from the grid and the storage, that's a lot of extra power on a Friday afternoon, not sure if it will be cheaper. In fact I suspect it would be so expensive that fast charging would be done on appointment (with on demand fast charging possible with higher cost per kwh). Either way, less convenient than just extremely high density of roadside slow chargers.
--- End quote ---
Large scale Slow charging is not an option in general , firstly urban planners are determined to limit long term street parking in urban areas, in most cases on street car parking charges are not suspended and hence long term charging becomes really expensive. Thirdly, cabling infrastructure isn’t up to the job. Lastly increasing battery capacity renders slow charging as merely opportunistic rather then required as a significant proportion of the battery cannot be returned in the typical time available.
Grid operators will tell you it’s far easier to feed a limited number of very high demand sites , these will usually be new builds on green field sites. Feeding a lot of medium consumption areas , like on street charging is far more disruptive and costly.
Currently around me the trend is 6-10 fast chargers in big motorway junction sites. These are all installed by commercial companies. ( ionity etc )
MadScientist:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2021, 09:23:51 pm ---
--- Quote ---Batteries to day already meet 80% of most people’s private motoring needs
--- End quote ---
How will the other 20% manage?
--- End quote ---
Bus , train , ass and cart.
MadScientist:
--- Quote from: Faringdon on November 14, 2021, 10:04:46 pm ---Thanks, for those who have nowhere to charge up a BEV, Hydrogen FCEV is the way forward...its faster to fill up.
Also, there will be Gov grants for HFCEV, because its way too dangerous to depend only on lithium (as in BEV).
Sorry but, IMHO, I guess anyone who can drive for free on solar charged BEV, is going to want that to become the status quo.
--- End quote ---
Hydrogen is the Betamax of EV . It’s BEVs because that’s where policy makers , urban planners and motor car companies have placed their bets.
There is no HFCEV policy , no grants , because ...... there is no HFCEV cars.
MadScientist:
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 13, 2021, 07:16:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on November 13, 2021, 07:07:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 13, 2021, 12:38:10 am ---And then the tax collector comes around and fines the employer for handing out freebies to the employees. In the NL 'free' EV charging for employees is an administrative nightmare.
--- End quote ---
Give it a rest man, that's the stupidest argument yet. It's a trivial matter to pass legislation to completely eliminate that hurdle. Even here in the USA with our back-asswards broken politics something like that is easily solved. Of course it doesn't need to be solved here because it's already not an issue, certain employers have been offering free EV charging for around a decade. Do you seriously not have employee perks in your country? That's bizarre.
--- End quote ---
Not tax free employee perks. Over here there are very strict limits on what employers can hand out for free and what counts as income. This legislation has been put in place to prevent employers paying employees with goods instead of money in order to evade taxes. This isn't trivial to change and you'd also need to think about how that is fair to people who come to work by bike or public transport. If you look at the big picture things are not simple.
--- End quote ---
It is as trivial as a stroke of a pen, Ireland eliminated overnight , the benefit in kind on employer provided EV charging . Life’s not fair , but then Ireland has a tax rebated bike to work scheme for 10;years ( yiu buy a bike income tax free ) and an income tax rebated bus/rail scheme for annual ticket holders. It’s was EVs that were being discriminated against :D
james_s:
--- Quote from: MadScientist on November 18, 2021, 08:35:51 pm ---Home charging has little future , in the uk the typical house limit is 60kw , and hence a 32 amp circuit is the max feasible limit. ( in fact for 32A you’ll need priority switching in some cases ) in fact many installers will only fit 16a EVSE in many cases.
Modern EVs currently have 60 kWh and trending towards 100 kWh batteries. , recharging 60kwh , on a 32A circuit takes 8 hours ( including taper charging ) , recharging 100kWh will be practically impossible in the typical night time available ( usually 12 -6am )
Hence home charging will be a fill-in activity
--- End quote ---
Absolute nonsense. Home charging is very clearly the future, at least for those in the suburbs, Tesla has said so themselves and it is what literally every single one of the EV owners I know does and it works just fine. A 32A circuit can charge at around 15 miles of range per hour and that is way more than adequate for most driving people do. The problem is you are looking at this from a gas (petrol) mentality where you drive around for days until the tank is almost empty and then fill it all up at once. EV drivers don't do that, in most cases they plug in whenever/wherever the opportunity exists and top up. Someone may take a long trip and deplete most of their charge in which case they would stop at a fast charger to fill up, but most of the time they will just charge at home. Without the ability to charge at home there is very little point in owning an EV at all.
Also something is very wrong with your math, 60kW is 250A at 240V which is quite a bit higher than the standard 200A 240V residential service panels we have here in the USA, and here it is very common to install a 50 or even 70A 240V EV charging circuit. The Tesla wall charger supports up to 70A as I recall. The sum rating of the individual branch circuits is far higher than the rating of the main here, and I think that is the case in the UK too. I was thinking the typical UK service was more like 100A 240V, which is still more than adequate for a 50A or more EV charger.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version