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| nctnico:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 26, 2021, 12:43:05 am --- --- Quote ---The reality is that nuclear, gas and coal power stations need to have a base load in order to keep running. --- End quote --- Renewables don't. Got too much power? Trim the turbines, disconnect the panels. --- End quote --- It doesn't work that way. Currently many of those installations have garantees that whatever they produce is to be absorbed by the grid. Another problem with turning wind turbines and solar panels off is that the electricity they produce is going to be more expensive because the ROI per time period has to remain the same in order to make the interest payments. |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 26, 2021, 01:00:01 am ---It doesn't work that way. Currently many of those installations have garantees that whatever they produce is to be absorbed by the grid. Another problem with turning wind turbines and solar panels off is that the electricity they produce is going to be more expensive because the ROI per time period has to remain the same in order to make the interest payments. --- End quote --- They're only paid these guarantees because we need a base load now. They'll be obsolete, much like coal power plants have gone obsolete in many parts of the world. We don't actually need a base load when we have sufficient renewable energy + storage to guarantee that there will not be a shortage in X years. The model for the UK was something like 3.5x nominal average load with 3 hours of storage guarantees no shortage (at current usage rates) for 50 years. In times of surplus, the electricity will be dirt cheap. There is a risk of Texas-style shortages with a pure renewable grid, but those are worsened by having fossil-fuel plants that can't black start. Renewable grids can self-start, whereas fossil fuel plants require well maintained diesel generators. Wind power is profitable around £25/MWhr, right now; that equates to about 2.5p/kWh + distribution costs, or probably a consumer cost of around 6-7p/kWh (~8 EUR-cents). |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 26, 2021, 10:48:52 am --- --- Quote from: nctnico on November 26, 2021, 01:00:01 am ---It doesn't work that way. Currently many of those installations have garantees that whatever they produce is to be absorbed by the grid. Another problem with turning wind turbines and solar panels off is that the electricity they produce is going to be more expensive because the ROI per time period has to remain the same in order to make the interest payments. --- End quote --- They're only paid these guarantees because we need a base load now. --- End quote --- No. It is because otherwise wind and solar are not profitable so governments are giving the companies that invest into wind and solar guarantees that whatever they produce will be bought AND for a minimum price. Electricity prices may even go negative but the tax payer is paying nevertheless in order to make sure the solar and wind companies are getting the minimum price per kWh. |
| Miyuki:
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 26, 2021, 04:25:50 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on November 26, 2021, 10:48:52 am --- --- Quote from: nctnico on November 26, 2021, 01:00:01 am ---It doesn't work that way. Currently many of those installations have garantees that whatever they produce is to be absorbed by the grid. Another problem with turning wind turbines and solar panels off is that the electricity they produce is going to be more expensive because the ROI per time period has to remain the same in order to make the interest payments. --- End quote --- They're only paid these guarantees because we need a base load now. --- End quote --- No. It is because otherwise wind and solar are not profitable so governments are giving the companies that invest into wind and solar guarantees that whatever they produce will be bought AND for a minimum price. Electricity prices may even go negative but the tax payer is paying nevertheless in order to make sure the solar and wind companies are getting the minimum price per kWh. --- End quote --- The truth is European "market" is weird as they try to push renewables by force and pay guaranteed fixed prices, sometimes really high compared to the end-user price just to promote more installations even in places without good conditions |
| SiliconWizard:
Yes and it's not "weird". It's just plain political stupidity at its best. I don't think this is restricted to the EU either. The frantic push for "renewable energy" (whatever it is and however renewable it really is) makes many countries all over the world make extremely stupid and damaging decisions. |
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