General > General Technical Chat
“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”
sandalcandal:
--- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 12, 2021, 11:49:20 am ---
--- Quote from: Rick Law on November 12, 2021, 06:17:49 am ---I miscalculated once and ran out of gas. I walked to the gas station with a 2 gallon jug, filled it, and walked back to my car. That 2 gallons would take me 50+ miles, within the distance to the next gas station.
AAA (USA's largest motor club for road side assistance) would have come with a gallon or two of gas if I was members and called for assistance.
I think AAA (or the likes) has the capacity to carry a fuel cell should they decide to do so. They usually come in a small pick-up with other equipment, some including a generator for starter-battery and jumping. I doubt they would be able to come with large enough a generator to charge up your car for another 20 to 50 miles in short duration. In USA mid-west States, finding a common gas station in the middle of night (1am to 6am) can be iffy within 50 miles. I doubt charging stations will be more available than common gas stations any time soon.
I think the lack of an easily portable energy source is a huge disadvantage. In that context, fuel cell at least have some hope, EV's that is plug-in charging only has much less hope...
--- End quote ---
In the UK, the AA, one of the major breakdown companies is already using a big alternator on the van's engine for EV emergency recharging. I don't recall offhand the power rating.
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Is it this one? https://originalads.co.uk/charge-pod/ I haven't heard them meeting their advertised spec of 10kW from their add-on alternator.
tom66:
The one I saw was 3kW. If you need to drive 15 miles at 3.5miles/kWh to get to the next charger, then you need 4.3kWh of energy - so over an hour of charging. Not sure 3kW will cut it. I'd like to see 20kW and CCS/Chademo capability. Maybe buffered with an onboard battery pack charged at 3-5kW from the main battery.
It's easy to do if the van is already a PHEV or hybrid, a lot harder if just a standard 2L diesel.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 12, 2021, 01:09:53 pm ---For charging on the street, a typical EV with a 40kWh battery will need to charge about once a week to cover commuting uses. So we do not need a density of chargers to match the number of cars. What we do need is dedicated on-street parking bays with EV chargers, about 10-20% of all spaces on a given street should consist of these.
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No. You'd need 30% to 40% of the parking spaces AND solve the problem that people don't occupy a charging point unnecessary. Are you going to wake up at 3:00 in the morning to move your car so the beighbours can charge theirs? The reality is that the current BEVs are not yet evolved to a point where they are real alternatives for cars that run on fuel or hydrogen. It takes another revolution in battery technology to increase the capacity / weight ratio and charge speed. The only charging infrastructure that makes sense financially due to resource sharing is to have superchargers like/at gas stations and charge there within a few minutes. Charging at home / in the street is a temporary crutch and will dissapear again after 10 to 20 years from now.
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 12, 2021, 02:35:23 pm ---The one I saw was 3kW. If you need to drive 15 miles at 3.5miles/kWh to get to the next charger, then you need 4.3kWh of energy - so over an hour of charging. Not sure 3kW will cut it. I'd like to see 20kW and CCS/Chademo capability. Maybe buffered with an onboard battery pack charged at 3-5kW from the main battery.
It's easy to do if the van is already a PHEV or hybrid, a lot harder if just a standard 2L diesel.
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Tow charging is a much easier solution. The cars from Rivian support this AFAIK (I've seen it being done using a prototype in a documentary). But nothing beats a jerry can with gas or diesel where it comes to simplicity.
wraper:
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 12, 2021, 02:41:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 12, 2021, 01:09:53 pm ---For charging on the street, a typical EV with a 40kWh battery will need to charge about once a week to cover commuting uses. So we do not need a density of chargers to match the number of cars. What we do need is dedicated on-street parking bays with EV chargers, about 10-20% of all spaces on a given street should consist of these.
--- End quote ---
No. The reality is that the current BEVs are not yet evolved to a point where they are real alternatives for cars that run on fuel or hydrogen. It takes another revolution in battery technology to increase the capacity / weight ratio and charge speed. The only charging infrastructure that makes sense financially due to resource sharing is to have superchargers like/at gas stations and charge there within a few minutes. Charging at home / in the street is a temporary crutch and will dissapear again after 10 to 20 years from now.
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 12, 2021, 02:35:23 pm ---The one I saw was 3kW. If you need to drive 15 miles at 3.5miles/kWh to get to the next charger, then you need 4.3kWh of energy - so over an hour of charging. Not sure 3kW will cut it. I'd like to see 20kW and CCS/Chademo capability. Maybe buffered with an onboard battery pack charged at 3-5kW from the main battery.
It's easy to do if the van is already a PHEV or hybrid, a lot harder if just a standard 2L diesel.
--- End quote ---
Tow charging is a much easier solution. The cars from Rivian support this AFAIK. But nothing beats a jerry can with gas or diesel where it comes to simplicity.
--- End quote ---
You conveniently forget there is no jerry can for filling Hydrogen. FWIW Hydrogen cars did not evolve to be a viable alternative to anything, be it ICE or BEV.
--- Quote ---Charging at home / in the street is a temporary crutch and will dissapear again after 10 to 20 years from now.
--- End quote ---
:palm: It's the best and the most convenient way do do it. You don't need to go anywhere to charge it. Why would you go out of your way to get to the charging station if there is no need to do so?
nctnico:
@Wraper: You are making the mistake assuming that everyone has a driveway AND wants to plug in the car every time they park it / enjoy unplugging it before use.
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