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“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”
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coppice:

--- Quote from: nctnico on March 30, 2022, 07:58:30 pm ---But these installations are setup for large amounts of hydrogen.

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Actually they are not. Try looking at videos on YouTube of people trying the hydrogen stations in California. They either arrive when things are very quiet, and fill up in 5 minutes, or they arrive when the station is busy, and have a long wait because it can take 20 to 30 minutes to fill each car when the system doesn't have time to recover between cars.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: coppice on March 30, 2022, 09:17:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on March 30, 2022, 07:58:30 pm ---But these installations are setup for large amounts of hydrogen.

--- End quote ---
Actually they are not. Try looking at videos on YouTube of people trying the hydrogen stations in California. They either arrive when things are very quiet, and fill up in 5 minutes, or they arrive when the station is busy, and have a long wait because it can take 20 to 30 minutes to fill each car when the system doesn't have time to recover between cars.

--- End quote ---
And what kind of compressor is installed at such a station? Without numbers you can't make meaningfull comparisons.
tom66:
Well, that source I linked suggests a production rate of 63kg/h for a compressor of 177kW.  If we assume every car is filled empty to full (the Mirai holds up to 5kg though an undisclosed amount is 'reserved'), then the station can do about 10-12 cars per hour without downtime.  I assume that if you want to have something close to a petrol station flow rate you'd need about 60 cars per hour, so you're looking at 1MW grid connections for the compressors -alone-.  That kind of makes the argument that superchargers will present grid connectivity issues a bit moot.  That's also ~15kWh of embedded energy per fill-up on compressor power alone, which surely further impacts efficiency.

I do think hydrogen has a good future in trucking, trains, longer-distance buses and possibly even aircraft;  big batteries for these applications are expensive, or for aircraft downright impractical.  For cars though, hydrogen has never made much sense.  There are only a few edge cases where it makes sense but the additional cost and infrastructure required just rule it out.    Above anything else the fact that only Toyota is really following the technology says it more than anything else IMO. 
emece67:
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james_s:

--- Quote from: tom66 on March 30, 2022, 10:30:55 pm ---I do think hydrogen has a good future in trucking, trains, longer-distance buses and possibly even aircraft;  big batteries for these applications are expensive, or for aircraft downright impractical.  For cars though, hydrogen has never made much sense.  There are only a few edge cases where it makes sense but the additional cost and infrastructure required just rule it out.    Above anything else the fact that only Toyota is really following the technology says it more than anything else IMO.

--- End quote ---

Hydrogen for aircraft *might* make sense, but I suspect it will only be practical to burn it rather than using a fuel cell to generate electricity. The latter might work in a light plane but I don't think it's going to scale up to the many megawatts required to propel an airliner. Hydrogen for cars is already dead and has been for years, the battle is already over and BEV is absolutely dominating the scene. As far as I know there are only a small handful of hydrogen filling stations in my entire country and all of them are located in California, a backwards place where political idealism and fantasy almost always trumps practical considerations.
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