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“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”
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TimFox:
In the Earth's crust, lithium has a higher abundance (0.0017%) than, say, lead (0.001%) or tin (0.00022%), but far below silicon (27%).
See  https://periodictable.com/Properties/A/CrustAbundance.an.html
james_s:
Right now at least there is a strong market for used EV batteries from wrecked cars. People are using them for conversions of older cars and for home energy storage. It will actually be nice as that market expands, there are all kinds of things I can use large banks of lithium ion batteries for.
james_s:

--- Quote from: ejeffrey on November 12, 2021, 06:38:59 pm ---This is a disadvantage but I think it is relatively minor.  Running out of gas on roads in the US is extremely rare these days.  It is absolutely not something we should be optimizing for in passenger vehicles.

The easiest solution and the one that most people will probably use is just towing.  Certainly that is what would happen today. Tow the car to a service station or the nearest place with a power outlet / charger.  Yes, that means you have to dispatch a tow truck rather than just a guy in a pickup truck, but it's really no big deal.   AAA dispatches plenty of tow trucks for other breakdowns already.

If it were a common problem it wouldn't be hard to fit roadside assistance trucks with 10 kWhr batteries they can give you enough charge to get where you are going.  The charge part will take a bit longer than dumping a couple gallons of gas in the tank, but still less than the amount of time you waited for assistance.  I doubt mobile chargers like this will catch on, but as EVs get a larger market share maybe?

--- End quote ---

True, I ran out of gas once 20 years ago because I was driving an old truck that had a dead spot in the fuel sender, it certainly isn't something that happens very often. I think it's probably much more common for cars to break down due to mechanical failures than to run out of gas. It really should be easier to avoid in an EV too since most people are going to plug in to charge every night rather than doing what most people do with gas cars and procrastinating until they are nearly empty. I don't know anyone who goes to a gas station every day to top up.
james_s:

--- Quote from: rstofer on November 12, 2021, 03:47:11 pm ---Oddly, that's exactly what I do and have done so for the last 8 years.  A partially charged battery is, well, partially charged - kind of range limiting.

--- End quote ---

That's what every single one of the EV drivers I know does too, some of them even plug it in at work because they can take advantage of that perk. It's a total non-issue, I don't know why he tries to make a mountain out of that mole hill every time. If EVs had been the norm for decades most people would balk at the idea of having to drive out of their way to a filling station and dispense gallons of smelly liquid into their car every time they need more energy. Why would you ever want to do that if there's any possible way you can fuel up at home? Can you imagine anyone wanting a liquid fueled smartphone that they have to take to a store every couple of weeks to fill up with fuel instead of just plugging it in on the nightstand every night when they go to bed? I find the thought hilarious because virtually nobody would trade the convenience of charging their phone at home for a week or two of run time if it were feasible to do. It's just so easy to plug in, it's no burden at all.
james_s:

--- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 12, 2021, 11:53:25 am ---Now calculate the difference in cost between a 150kW generator compared to a jerry can and how that would reflect on your AAA subscription cost.
Why do you think it would need anything like that power ? EVs are pretty good at predicting range, so for the occasional user who runs out, it doesn't matter if it takes 30+ mins to charge enough to get to the nearest charge point. 10-20kW would be more than adequate. And once breakdown vans go electric ( or at least PHEV), they can just charge from their battery.

--- End quote ---

A jerry can is not much use with an electric vehicle though is it? I'm not arguing that this is needed, I'm only saying that it's a simple engineering solution if somebody does decide it's necessary. I don't really think a genset would be all that expensive in terms of the cost on your membership, a truck with a 150kW genset wouldn't be any more expensive than a tow truck. Now I think a tow truck is probably a more practical solution, but a generator truck is certainly possible, and large generators are not hard to come by. I could drive over to the rental place a couple of miles from me and rent one on a trailer right now if I needed to. https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/detail/1611/0090120/150kw-diesel-generator/ Buying one outright is what, a few tens of thousands? That isn't much in terms of a business expense, even the non-tow-capable roadside assistance trucks are probably $100k equipped.
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