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“Battery EV” vs “Hydrogen Fuel cell EV”
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mikeselectricstuff:

--- Quote from: Faringdon on November 13, 2021, 10:04:35 am ---Thanks, i think there's other ways to produce hydrogen...and if those ways are powered 100% by renewables, then hydrogen is just as eco friendly as BEVs.

--- End quote ---
Only if there's literally nothing else you can do with that electricity. Electron-to-wheel efficiency of hydrogen is still only about 30% that of BEV
nctnico:

--- Quote from: not1xor1 on November 13, 2021, 09:31:52 am ---Unlike fuel cells, in future EVs batteries might also give energy back to the grid integrating with solar and wind energy, taking excess production and giving it back when there is no wind or sun.

--- End quote ---
Now calculate the price per kWh for doing that. Storing electricity in Li-ion gets expensive quickly especially when using a battery which isn't designed for that purpose. The power company would need to pay you tens of dollar / euro cents per kWh to cover your costs and someone else has to come up with that money.  After a couple of hours it becomes more economical to use hydrogen as a storage medium. The worst mistake to make here is to focus solely on efficiency. Think about how much a mains adapter would cost if it where 99.9% efficient. It just doesn't make sense from a financial point of view.


--- Quote ---Electricity is everywhere while an hydrogen grid is nowhere.

--- End quote ---
Actually there is. Especially if there is a natural gas grid. In the NL the natural gas infrastructure is being modified for use with hydrogen for a while now. The pipes are already suitable for hydrogen and whenever connecting hardware (valves, bends, couplings, etc) need to be replaced they are replaced by models that are suitable for hydrogen.
Faringdon:

--- Quote ---AFAIK most hydrogen fuel cells still use platinum-group metal catalysts, though research is underway to replace them.
--- End quote ---
Thanks, i will look into how much of this is needed, as platinium is very rare.
In any case, if both BEV's and HEV's are reliant on rare materials,  then it still means its a good idea to not be too dependent on either BEV's or HEV's, ..but that a mixture of both is needed. Platinum being rare, therefore does not, IMHO, mean that HEV's should be discarded.
(i must admit i dont know how much platinum goes into a fuel cell, apparently its something like 50 grams?)

Also, i am not convinced that either platinium or lithium , or cobalt, are really rare, maybe its just that we as a human race havent yet spent much time looking for them?

The following
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bosch-ev-fuel-cells-less-platinum-report/
actually says that Bosch's new prototype fuel cells use less platinum , 3 to 6 grams.

A BEV battery contains a whopping 10Kg of Lithium...thats a lot of a metal that is rare, and where the worlds deposits of it could get bought up by a single company/country.
TimFox:
See my reply #55 above:  lithium is not terribly rare.
Fuel cells use platinum, which is rare, but it does not react chemically with the fuel, therefore thin layers work.
In batteries, the metals do react with the electrolyte and bulk quantities are required.
rstofer:

--- Quote from: not1xor1 on November 13, 2021, 09:31:52 am ---Unlike fuel cells, in future EVs batteries might also give energy back to the grid integrating with solar and wind energy, taking excess production and giving it back when there is no wind or sun.

--- End quote ---

Many years ago, there was a movement to get vehicles powered by natural gas.  Some utility companies bought into it as did many municipal bus systems.  The public never did and that's why it is nearly impossible to find a filling station.  I see fuel cells going the same way.  Municipalities and utilities will buy into it (because they are forced to) but not much else.  You can see that pattern in the California initiative to install 250 hydrogen stations and 250,000 battery charging stations.

As to powering a house with a pickup truck:  Ford is already doing that:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-pickup-intelligent-backup-power-house/

I think they are leaving out a few details like not back-feeding the grid.  I'm almost in the market for a new truck, maybe I'll look into this idea.
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