General > General Technical Chat
Battery overcharing
tooki:
--- Quote from: PlainName on December 27, 2023, 02:28:32 pm ---
--- Quote ---I guess that a good charge controller is supposed to switch off after the saturation phase anyway.
--- End quote ---
Well that's the issue here - we are guessing, and no-one seems to know why some manufacturers (who, after all, would probably prefer not to make out that their product might be a bit iffy) state that the phone shouldn't be left on extended charge. If the charge controller, however that's implemented, could just consider the battery done and turn it all off, there would be no need for such warnings, would there? Indeed, does Apple have similar warnings despite apparently being able to control the charge from software?
--- End quote ---
Here’s what Apple says right now:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/105105] [url]https://support.apple.com/en-us/105105[/url]
--- Quote --- Charge and maintain your iPhone battery
Learn about charging the battery in your iPhone and how you can prolong your battery's lifespan.
About your battery's lifespan
A battery’s lifespan is related to its chemical age, which is more than just the length of time since the battery was assembled. A battery’s chemical age results from a complex combination of several factors, including temperature history and charging pattern. All rechargeable batteries are consumable components that become less effective as they chemically age. As lithium-ion batteries chemically age, the amount of charge they can hold diminishes, resulting in reduced battery life and reduced peak performance.
Learn more about iPhone battery and performance
Learn how to maximize battery performance and lifespan
How charging affects your battery
For most customers, the battery in your iPhone should last the whole day. You can charge your iPhone every night even if the battery isn't fully depleted.
iPhone automatically stops charging when the battery is fully charged, so it's safe to keep your iPhone connected to a charger overnight. Charging resumes automatically if your battery level drops below 95 percent.
When possible, unplug your iPhone after it has fully charged. By default, your iPhone uses Optimized Battery Charging. To improve your battery's lifespan, Optimized Battery Charging reduces the time that your iPhone spends fully charged. It fully charges your iPhone just in time for you to use it.
A battery warms up as it charges, which can reduce its lifespan. To reduce the effect of heat and prevent overheating, iPhone gradually reduces the charging current as the battery approaches full charge.
Learn more about Optimized Battery Charging
How temperature affects your battery
iPhone is designed to perform well in a wide range of ambient temperatures, with 62° to 72° F (16° to 22° C) being the ideal comfort zone.
Avoid using or charging your device in ambient temperatures higher than 95° F (35° C), which can permanently reduce battery lifespan.
When using your device in a very cold environment, you might notice a decrease in battery life. This condition is temporary; when the battery’s temperature returns to its normal operating range, its performance will return to normal.
Software might limit charging above 80 percent when the recommended battery temperatures are exceeded.
Learn more about how temperature can affect your iPhone
How Wi-Fi and Bluetooth affect your battery
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are designed to draw minimal power from the battery when they aren't connected to a network or accessory. For the best experience on your iPhone, keep Wi-Fi and Bluetooth turned on.
Some features might not work if you turn off Wi-Fi or Bluetooth
Learn how to check our your battery health and other information about your battery
Published Date: November 15, 2023
--- End quote ---
Interestingly, on the page about optimized charging (link above), it says this:
--- Quote --- About 80% Limit with iPhone 15 models
With iPhone 15 models, you can choose between Optimized Battery Charging, 80% Limit, and None.
When you choose 80% Limit, your iPhone will charge up to about 80 percent and then stop charging. If the battery charge level gets down to 75 percent, charging will resume until your battery charge level reaches about 80 percent again.
With 80% Limit enabled, your iPhone will occasionally charge to 100 percent to maintain accurate battery state-of-charge estimates.
--- End quote ---
The fixed 80% is new, and I’m not sure why they wouldn’t enable that software option for older devices, too.
PlainName:
--- Quote ---And I am sure Apple, Samsung, Google will have similar statements in their manuals to cover themselves.
--- End quote ---
You are guessing, and doing worse than the rest of us. I've already posted a quote from Samsung on this so clumping that in with Apple and Google is a bit disingenuous. Maybe you could quote from the Apple manual where it says the same?
PlainName:
--- Quote ---On the off-chance I'm wrong: I would have thought that the review from your device would mention battery issues - if the device mismanaged the charging it would be obvious fairly early on in the devices life.
--- End quote ---
How long do you think it would take to notice lack of battery capacity? A week? Two? Come on - you are making stuff up again. My current phone has lasted 5.5 years and I would like the new one to last that long, not least because the battery is no replaceable and it's a bloody expensive phone to bin just because someone said it won't burst into flames if you leave it on charge.
PlainName:
--- Quote from: tooki on December 27, 2023, 03:16:11 pm ---The fixed 80% is new, and I’m not sure why they wouldn’t enable that software option for older devices, too.
--- End quote ---
Because they'd get reamed for it. Recall what happened why they slowed phones down to make the batteries last a bit longer.
Which leads me to...
Suppose you (as a manufacturer) can control the battery charge in an on/off fashion. Once it gets up to whatever you consider fully charged you can flip the switch and the charge is turned off. Being clever, you can arrange that the battery is just fully charged when the user wakes up in the morning, either from monitoring their usual wake time or by looking at the set alarm. You can put off charging until the exact time before wakeup that it will take to charge, or you can wait until it's at 100% (or the preferred level), turn it off and then just before wake give it a couple of minutes to make up for what's since drained.
Magic. But what if the user has irregular hours and/or doesn't use the phone alarm? You could wait until full charge and then turn it off, but you wouldn't know when to do the last moment top up. The user could be taking it away in the next minute or they might've gone off on holiday, and you won't know until the cable is pulled. Is the top up important? I think it is, because if the user puts it on charge and then goes to use it and finds it at only 95% they will get a bit annoyed. Especially if it's habitual.
OK, so you can't afford (reputation-wise) to take it off charge unless you know how long it will be on charge (cf. alarm, etc). You could fake the charge - if the actual charge is 95% when the user pulls the cable you could say it's 100% and they'd never know, but then you'd have to fake the fall in charge during use because the user would notice an unaccountable step. I think Apple have tried something like this in the past and got roundly told off.
So the end result is that although you have the ability to limit excess charge, it's more than your job's worth to actually do that except for specific circumstance. Just put a warning in the manual to not leave it on charge overnight (unless the alarm is set) and job's a good 'un. But the battery charging is suboptimal and will wear the battery prematurely. But that's 2-3 years away and you can just flog them a new phone then.
I'm surprised Apple doesn't allow the 80% to be flexible according to user preference. Perhaps there is some hardware setting involved which can't be software controlled.
PlainName:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on December 27, 2023, 02:54:16 pm ---if it was normal for a phone battery to completely die by sitting two months plugged in, we would be seeing a lot of complaints, and N would be in millions, not 1.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely! But that's a straw man and you know it - no-one has suggested anything like that timescale.
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