Be aware defective products from Amazon NO recourse

[Jester]

I’m located in Canada, so the situation may vary by country.

Purchased from Amazon a camera that plugs into MAINS as well as PC. Upon connection huge arc and destoyed the PC.

Response from Amazon after 10 hours on the phone:
 - customer service useless, other than offering to refund the price of camera
 - will not provide contact details of their legal department

Response from consumer protection we can’t do anything contact a lawyer
Response from lawyer, unless you can prove that Amazon sold the device knowing that not just the unit they sold you was defective, but all cameras of that type were defective and then they decided to sell them anyways, you have no recourse but to attempt to recover from the seller directly.

I imagine if this burnt the house down the insurance company would know how to collect.

Welcome to 2022 in Canada.

[bdunham7]

The liability of a reseller or 'middleman' varies with jurisdiction, so if you consulted a Canadian lawyer you probably go the right answer for Canada.  But (again, I don't know specific Canada law) if you struggle to reach the seller directly, the importer may be liable.  Good luck with that unless they just happen to be a real company.

When you say the camera plugs into mains, do you mean a mains cord directly to the device or do you mean a brick or wall wart setup?

[Stray Electron]

      You say purchased from Amazon but it sounds more like you purchased from a vendor on Amazon and not from Amazon themselves.  There is a BIG difference! 

      IMO the WORST thing that Amazon has ever done was to allow 3rd party sellers on their platform.

   "blew up the PC."

      Really?   Pictures or it didn't happen. 

    "Welcome to 2022 in Canada."

      What? You don't have small claims court in Canada?

[Jester]

The liability of a reseller or 'middleman' varies with jurisdiction, so if you consulted a Canadian lawyer you probably go the right answer for Canada.  But (again, I don't know specific Canada law) if you struggle to reach the seller directly, the importer may be liable.  Good luck with that unless they just happen to be a real company.

When you say the camera plugs into mains, do you mean a mains cord directly to the device or do you mean a brick or wall wart setup?

Device is/was a nanny camera disguised as a USB charger. It plugs into the wall and has a USB connector and cable that your supposed to plug into a pc to set the time and date. When I say blew up, it didn’t physically explode, it just would no longer turn on. From the arc that occurred it looks like in applied full MAINS to the USB port.

[james_s]

That sounds entirely plausible. Isolation failure due to typical inadequately made transformer in cheap generic Chinese charger, people have been electrocuted by these. Applying mains to the USB port is probably exactly what happened.

Do you have homeowners or renters insurance? They may replace the PC for you and if it's worth it to them they may go after the seller themselves to recover.

[wraper]

Not sure about Canada. But usually you need to bring a faulty item to independent expert and get report. Then if report is favorable to you, the company either reimburses the damages voluntarily or you sue them. I guess you need to bring both items, so you get a report that camera has fatal insulation failure and that computer got fried via USB.
The seller is likely Chinese (check their business details on Amazon), so it's another problem. But I guess it's not totally impossible to get their goods sized if their items are dispatched from Canadian warehouse of Amazon.

[wraper]

As of dangerous item, Canada has a proper authority to report https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/corporate/contact-us/consumer-product-safety-program.html, consumer protection is not the right one.

[Jester]

I have reported the device to consumer product safety in Canada.

The seller is actually based out of Sugar Land Texas. It's interesting, because the ad claims designed in USA manufactured in China, however it looks like countless Chinese knock-offs with just as many names, so I'm highly skeptical that it was actually designed in the USA. If it was I would love to know what safety standard they designed to?

I think the relevant standard in the USA would be UL 60950-1  Edition 3

Can someone confirm that?

[thm_w]

Looks like this is the item in question: https://www.amazon.ca/Spy-Camera-Charger-Premium-Surveillance/dp/B083QNJQK2/
Its a Chinese company registered in USA: https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_tx/0803710625

Might be possible to sue in small claims here: https://www.gilbertsondavis.com/enforcement-ontario-judgment-us-u-s-american-states/ I wouldn't bother.

But either way, do not buy mains powered devices from china that are not appropriately approved. Too much risk. Amazon should really not be selling them, or post warnings.

[Someone]

Welcome to 2022 in Canada.

International trade has always been complex but only with internet shopping has it hit consumers.

From what has been said it was bought from a US seller? then you're the importer and responsible for all/any safety compliance. Shake your local safety bodies too hard and they could come back at you with scary strength. Buy something from a local seller if you want your local standards and protections.

[Someone]

But either way, do not buy mains powered devices from china that are not appropriately approved. Too much risk. Amazon should really not be selling them, or post warnings.

Like ebay, that side of their business is a platform ... for which they will take no responsibility beyond "yes, we did facilitate a transaction and take our cut, any problems are between the two of you".

[thm_w]

But either way, do not buy mains powered devices from china that are not appropriately approved. Too much risk. Amazon should really not be selling them, or post warnings.

Like ebay, that side of their business is a platform ... for which they will take no responsibility beyond "yes, we did facilitate a transaction and take our cut, any problems are between the two of you".

I realize that, but the layperson does not. Which is where a warning would have some value, if they browse through light switches and see "oh this is not certified for use in my country, maybe I should choose an approved one for $5 more instead?"

They do provide some warnings when you buy certain "professional" equipment here, not sure why.

[floobydust]

The Canadian government, and US, UK, Australia etc. - willingly allow import and resale of mains-powered devices from china that have no safety approvals or certificates. Many with hazardous, unsafe construction.
We allow it to happen. Everyone loves cheap junk and china gets to build up their industries the easy way with no regulatory burden or accountability.
USB charger, Christmas lights, SMT hot air station, SMPS etc. all of these can be quite dangerous.

Flip the table and I couldn't make a mains-powered product to sell, having no safety approvals. china won't allow such an import, and in other countries maybe blocked at Customs and I'd be liable.
There are also instances of importers putting fake approval labels on cheap imported products i.e. San Francisco stores you might remember.

On Amazon, I'd purchased a Shark USB charger and noticed the mains cord was very thin, and that there are no safety approvals, aside from the usual fake CE. I posted this in a review and the product vanished, it got pulled by either the seller or Amazon.

[abquke]

Amazon and eBay have converged to the point where I just use eBay.

[Stray Electron]

Amazon and eBay have converged to the point where I just use eBay.

     Yes, I frequently do the same!  The prices on a lot of items on Amazon have gotten ridiculous.  Usually thanks to a 3rd party seller. At least I KNOW that I can get my money back with Ebay/payPal.   I can't say the same of 3rd party amazon sellers. 

[Someone]

Amazon and eBay have converged to the point where I just use eBay.

Yes, I frequently do the same!  The prices on a lot of items on Amazon have gotten ridiculous.  Usually thanks to a 3rd party seller. At least I KNOW that I can get my money back with Ebay/payPal.   I can't say the same of 3rd party amazon sellers.

On the off chance there is a better deal/coupon/discount/membership price on Amazon the bots quickly match it with a small markup on eBay. Had a few packages arrive drop shipped (even internationally!) while having dealt entirely with a local "private" seller. Saves me hours hunting for the best price.

[blacksheeplogic]

Device is/was a nanny camera disguised as a USB charger. It plugs into the wall and has a USB connector and cable that your supposed to plug into a pc to set the time and date. When I say blew up, it didn’t physically explode, it just would no longer turn on. From the arc that occurred it looks like in applied full MAINS to the USB port.

So your an upstanding ethical member of the community wanting to record people without their knowledge for whatever reason, bought the cheapest device you could find from a company with catering to these morally outstanding people and got burnt (or rather your laptop did).

Sorry to hear that.

[Jester]

Device is/was a nanny camera disguised as a USB charger. It plugs into the wall and has a USB connector and cable that your supposed to plug into a pc to set the time and date. When I say blew up, it didn’t physically explode, it just would no longer turn on. From the arc that occurred it looks like in applied full MAINS to the USB port.

So your an upstanding ethical member of the community wanting to record people without their knowledge for whatever reason, bought the cheapest device you could find from a company with catering to these morally outstanding people and got burnt (or rather your laptop did).

Sorry to hear that.

Wow!

Should someone enter a room that they have been told is strictly off limits?

You are in no position to judge as you have no idea of where this is located, what signs are posted etc. FWIW it was located in a secure workplace room with multiple cameras and warning signs, this was a backup in case the other camera at that vantage point failed.

All the people that purchase from Amazon are  “morally outstanding”, please explain that?

Please enlighten me on where you would purchase such a device, and what is an appropriately high price to pay?

[bd139]

Amazon and eBay have converged to the point where I just use eBay.

This is ok until your eBay purchase turns up in an Amazon package and you worked out you paid 2x the amazon amount for it and some bastard has pocketed the difference.

If this ever happens, open a return with eBay. It’s hilariously expensive and time consuming for the seller to deal with so they mostly ignore you and you get to keep the item 

As for buying stuff, well if you buy off brand then you get this shit. Horse flavoured lasagne here for example…

[floobydust]

OP, about the safety aspect- I typically see IEC 60950 certification but this standard is 30 years old, now withdrawn and replaced by IEC 62368 Dec. 2020, as part of the change to hazard-based safety standards.

edit: Amazon could easily have a "safety approvals" field with the item information. "NONE" 

[Jester]

OP, about the safety aspect- I typically see IEC 60950 certification but this standard is 30 years old, now withdrawn and replaced by IEC 62368 Dec. 2020, as part of the change to hazard-based safety standards.

edit: Amazon could easily have a "safety approvals" field with the item information. "NONE" 

IMO the IEC 62368 hazards-based approach is more intuitive than the older 60950/61010 standards. Many years ago I found myself perusing the standards page by page to determine what was applicable and what was not for a particular product. Other than spelling out the nuances for example the details of ground stud wiring a fair bit of the standard would not apply to the device you were designing. Ultimately is was mostly about identifying the hazardous energy sources and dealing with them.

I actually have an isolated USB hub on my bench and normally use it with unknown devices, I’m kicking myself for the rookie mistake of trusting an unknown device, the isolated and un-isolated ports are within 6” of each other.

[james_s]

So your an upstanding ethical member of the community wanting to record people without their knowledge for whatever reason, bought the cheapest device you could find from a company with catering to these morally outstanding people and got burnt (or rather your laptop did).

Sorry to hear that.

If you don't want to be recorded, stay off my property, you have no room to try to shame anyone for protecting their own property when you don't even have any idea of the circumstances it is being done. I'm sick of pro-criminal people falling all over themselves to protect the crooks at the expense of everyone else.

[james_s]

Amazon and eBay have converged to the point where I just use eBay.

This is ok until your eBay purchase turns up in an Amazon package and you worked out you paid 2x the amazon amount for it and some bastard has pocketed the difference.

If this ever happens, open a return with eBay. It’s hilariously expensive and time consuming for the seller to deal with so they mostly ignore you and you get to keep the item 

This has happened to me a few times and it annoys me, I didn't bother to try to screw them over though. Ironically I've had the same thing happen with Amazon too, I ordered something a while back and it arrived in a box from Sam's Club.

I absolutely loathe these ridiculous marketplace things that nearly every online seller is using now. You never really know who you're actually buying from and they make it difficult to avoid. It's going to eventually dilute all these brands as they become nothing more than a facade for dozens of other retailers.

[tooki]

I couldn’t agree more. I used to enjoy Amazon back when, other than used books, it was just them selling. The search worked well, and Amazon’s prices, while not always the lowest, were always decent.

Now I literally can’t be bothered. Ordering just takes way, way, WAY too long. Between wading through pages of keyword-stuffed third party crap that isn’t the specific thing I want, to often only third-party availability even if it is what I want, only to discover that it can’t be shipped to Switzerland anyway (since their stupid search lists an item if any variant from any seller happens to ship to Switzerland, even if the variant I searched for isn’t available from any seller that ships here). Sometimes it’ll tell me that right on the product page, other times it won’t tell me until I attempt to check out. It’s absolutely maddening, and shows absolute disdain for the user’s time.

Amazon used to design its website to be user-first. I used to work in user interface design, and in regards to online shops, people used to say “when in doubt, look to see how Amazon is doing it” because they were so consistently good. That’s certainly gone out the window…

[bd139]

It’s designed carefully to confuse you into making a profitable purchase for them.