Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.

[maginnovision]

In related news, Huxley will be going to Kindergarten next year, he'll be the youngest in the year by several months. Majority of kids will be 12 to 22 months older. Sagan, born the same month, was the 2nd or 3rd youngest.
Seems that everyone is holding their kids back now so they'll be "smarter" than the other kids.

That's interesting, my 4 year old wasn't eligible to start school for being too young. My son will be the same since he was born only a month(and 2 years) later. What is the minimum age there?

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/enrol-nsw-public-primary-school

You can enrol your child in kindergarten at the beginning of the school year if they turn 5 on or before 31 July of that year. They must be enrolled by their sixth birthday.

So if your kids 4yo and born on 31st July, they could be going to Kindergarten with 6yo kids born in Feb, so 20 months potential difference.
Like I said, was common when I was kid to go as soon as you could. Then for Sagan (now 8yo) it was fairly rare. Now with Huxley, even with him being born in May, he will be the youngest in the entire year by almost two months. It's very "trendy" now to hold your kids back a year so they can be "smarter" than the younger kids.

Got it, pretty much the same here(5 by september 2). Since their birthdays are early in the year(february and march or may), which makes them just too young, they'll start when they're only a few months from being 6 years old. Seems late to me but I think it'd be the same thing there. That is an odd trend to basically wait a year. For most of my schooling I was a couple years younger than classmates so I'd think being the oldest would make you feel stupid, not smart. Nobody wants to leave grade school at 19 years old.

[edy]

Imagine such a genius prodigy "Doogie Houser" type becoming a brilliant doctor at a young age and saving your life. Let's for the sake of argument say he has no bedside manner... do you really care if he ends up saving your arse? Are we to be so disappointed if a kid is brilliant at coding and electronics and invents the next greatest billion dollar company, but has developed minimally in other "soft" areas? Who cares? How much time do we "waste" in school learning stuff that will never even remotely be applied. I'm not saying we should ignore the value of getting a broad-based diverse education... there are plenty of advantages for people who can "bridge" ideas between varying disciplines and create innovation. But if a kid knows the basics (enough to pass University entrance exams for specific area of study) then let him or her keep learning as much as they want. Their psychological health may or may not be correlated... it is up to parents, teachers and whoever is involved in this child's life to monitor their mental health and make sure they are not getting too stressed or burning out and keep them balanced and psychologically stable.

[jesuscf]

Nine months later... He'll graduate as an electrical engineer at age 9... 

https://interestingengineering.com/first-9-year-old-to-graduate-from-university

How is it even possible to cram a whole EE degree into 9 month? No mandatory labs, projects, dated assignments, presentations, etc.? How could he even sign up for every single exam in one or two exam periods?

Bingo!  Maybe a close scrutiny of the 'Electrical Engineering' degree offered by the Eindhoven University of Technology is in order here.  I have been trying to find the syllabus of some of their Electrical Engineering courses, but nothing so far.

[Kjelt]

It is not uncommon to get exemptions / dispensations if you can proof you already have the knowledge gathered.
Since he already had university level math knowledge and other sciences he probably had plenty of those.

[SiliconWizard]

It is not uncommon to get exemptions / dispensations if you can proof you already have the knowledge gathered.
Since he already had university level math knowledge and other sciences he probably had plenty of those.

True. And if the little boy managed to get exemptions for this at his young age, unless he benefited from special treatment, it's clearly even more exceptional than him just getting such a degree, which was already pretty amazing by itself.

[VK3DRB]

Granted, little Laurent might be smart, but he lacks life experience. One would wish this kid the best for the future. Hopefully he will be happy and find some balance and can be a kid, and maybe a normal adult. It appears his parents are well adjusted. We have a problem in Australia where a few parents from a certain background push their kids so hard for top academic results at all costs, the kids have no holidays, no social life, and no childhood. Do they want what is best for the child? They often use the kids to save face. IMO, these are toxic parents - it is they who need educating.

[EEVblog]

We have a problem in Australia where a few parents from a certain background push their kids so hard for top academic results at all costs, the kids have no holidays, no social life, and no childhood. Do they want what is best for the child?

The unfortunate part about life is that you can't chose your parents.
It would be easy for me push Sagan and Huxley into electronics at a young age, but I prefer to just let them be kids and support whatever thing they seem naturally interested in.

[Kjelt]

It could go both ways, few weeks ago there was an interview with some asian pianist who was pushed by his parents and he was now very gratefull since he is in the top10 best musicians and pretty rich.
If he would not have made it , it would probably be a totally different story.
Don't romanticize childhood since many kids these days grow up in the concrete valley, no playground, no wood, no soccer field, just concrete and traffic and their youth is spent gaming online.

[EEVblog]

It could go both ways, few weeks ago there was an interview with some asian pianist who was pushed by his parents and he was now very gratefull since he is in the top10 best musicians and pretty rich.
If he would not have made it , it would probably be a totally different story.

Bingo.
And how many people "make it"?

[Black Phoenix]

Bingo.
And how many people "make it"?

I will add some more:

How many ones are forced by the parents just because it looks good when trying to enter a prestigious school or because of someone who was able to get there, so all parents think that their own kid will do to?

In Portugal because of the Football (or Soccer if you are in the other side of the pond) star Cristiano Ronaldo, now every father put his kid in football, even if the kid never was interested in Football or even is that good on it. They even have some fights during games between parents because of that. I know cases of kids who got his parents badmouthing them and calling them stupid or other kind of proper insults because the kid is just not fit for football, it can't really be better than lower average.

You can't ask a kid that have talent to music to try to place itself in a National Football Team. Even if you have a lot of practice that doesn't mean you are going to be better than average. Now you ask, what kind of talent then the kid have if you don't make him try new things? How about let him try things and see what he really likes to do. If he doesn't like, let him go and try a new thing. Naturally he will find something he likes and wants to keep doing.

With me it was IT and Electronics/Electricity, but my mom also tried me to do sports (swimming) and at school I had the chance of doing all kind of sports from football, handball, basketball, baseball, volleyball and even track running but none of them stuck with me. But I had friends who were good at basketball and even played in a regional team, winning some championships, and one of them were a player who were scouted to the Barcelona FC sub-18 football team. But because of an operation to his knee he stopped playing football at 24 years old. TToday, after he finished his Human Resources Degree,he is well positioned in a known supermarket retail company. He was good with football, he even said that, but even when he was doing that, he continued studying to Human Resources, his true call.

Competition in every scope and activity is super fierce, kids nowardays should go with the mentality that yes, they can be very good in a field, but that doesn't mean that others will not be as good or better. Then it's up to them if they want to keep trying and improve or if they will hit a wall that they can't climb. There should not be a shame into fail, the shame is to not even try.

But now someone asks, who I am to say something when I don't even have kids? Well, I'm waiting for mine to born (End of January) and probably my thinking will change after that, as someone without experience as a father, I may be totally wrong in what I written above. But I will try to remember what I've done and adjust in accordance of what I want for my kid. For him/her to find something that he/she likes, and give him/her the education and the means to pursuit it.

[maginnovision]

I wouldn't even count on the eevblog being around by time you know what kind of father you are(were) so good luck to you. Just do your best.

[sokoloff]

Now you ask, what kind of talent then the kid have if you don't make him try new things? How about let him try things and see what he really likes to do. If he doesn't like, let him go and try a new thing. Naturally he will find something he likes and wants to keep doing.

I think you still want to exercise some guidance as a parent (and it’s well within your “right” to do so). Unconstrained, kids will find they love TV, Doritos, YouTube, iPad games, and Fortnite. Just like we make them eat vegetables, we should make them try a variety of healthful and engaging activities.

But yes, no sense forcing a fish to ride a bicycle. (But you can force them to try and later to try swimming.)

Competition in every scope and activity is super fierce, kids nowardays should go with the mentality that yes, they can be very good in a field, but that doesn't mean that others will not be as good or better. Then it's up to them if they want to keep trying and improve or if they will hit a wall that they can't climb. There should not be a shame into fail, the shame is to not even try.

Absolutely this. Imagine that there are 100 million people the same age as you or your child. If a school you want to get into accepts 1000 per year, the general odds are 1 in 100 thousand. Maybe you have a 10:1 advantage by circumstance of birth, but you’re still a 10000:1 shot the day you’re born. Way better chances than a lottery, but still an interesting mix of simultaneously a long shot but a reasonable one to contemplate making.

As above, you want to find the thing you love and have skills at, not only because it’s much easier to make the top 1% of 1% of things you love doing, but much more importantly, that you’ll enjoy your orbits of the nearby star a lot more whether or not you make even the top 10% of the field.

[Kjelt]

Bingo.
And how many people "make it"?

True, but if you don't try or get the chance to try you are sure you will not make it.

The whole point here is if Laurent is pushed against his will and interest into this endeavour, right?
It sure does not look like that from what I can read about it.

So if your son would solve university math equations at age5 and ask you that he likes to learn more, would you say no? Here is a ball go outside and play with the other kids ?
Which is a totally different story than forcing a kid to learn university math because you want him to.

[EEVblog]

So if your son would solve university math equations at age5 and ask you that he likes to learn more, would you say no?

No normal child is doing university level math at age 5. They would only be doing that because their parents pushed them to.
They might still enjoy it of course, but no 5yo kid is going to give a natural rats arse about solving integrals.

[VK3DRB]

As above, you want to find the thing you love and have skills at, not only because it’s much easier to make the top 1% of 1% of things you love doing, but much more importantly, that you’ll enjoy your orbits of the nearby star a lot more whether or not you make even the top 10% of the field.

Absolutely . One volunteer is worth ten conscripts.

I once was invited to give a talk to the Chinese Professional Society on educating kids effectively. I had also given the same talk to two other large groups. During the talk, a summary of what I said was:

1. Don't pressure your kids to compete for marks - just tell them that you expect them to do THEIR best and nothing more.
2. Do not give them tangible rewards or punishment based on specific marks. It is tantamount to bribery.
3. Give the kids space in their senior high school to hang out with friends, participate in a hobby, church, music, sport, ironing the clothes whilst watching TV, or whatever that has nothing to do with study.
4. Do NOT push them into doing medicine because YOU want them to do that even though they might not be interested. Don't have them follow the money, or "prestige" because you get to save face. Let them do a course of study for a profession THEY are interested in and have a talent to pursue.
5. Why I believe private schools are waste of money.
6. Support and encourage your kids, but don't over-control them. LISTEN to your kids.

I gave examples of horror stories I had witnessed. Also I demonstrated implementing the above where my three kids excelled academically and earned their degrees/Masters/PhD's in areas that interested them and all went on to fulfilling careers. I have seen far too many people pushed into engineering by their parents or culture, but they just see it as a job and nothing more and are not happy - some retrain for something they enjoy doing. I expected my talk to upset a few in the audience and not see many happy faces at the end. To my surprise, they all applauded and one couple came up to me thanking me profusely. The society later sent me a certificate of appreciation. It made my day.

[Kjelt]

No normal child is doing university level math at age 5. They would only be doing that because their parents pushed them to.
They might still enjoy it of course, but no 5yo kid is going to give a natural rats arse about solving integrals.

You are right, I don't think these genius kids are "normal".
They are the extreme rare exceptions. One in a hundred million perhaps.
Normally if they are lucky they encounter math problems after age 10 and then get noticed, but if a kid already shows interest in a younger age and excels in some puzzles/problems why not stimulate ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

[SerieZ]

5. Why I believe private schools are waste of money.

I do agree with most points you've made but I simply have no Idea how anyone can have Faith in something such as Government implemented Public Schools.
Personally I have been in several public schools during my child-teenhood thanks to travelling Parents and I can only attest absolute and utter incompetence in anything Governments do wherever you go (even Switzerland) except raking in Tax Dollars.
True waste of Money.

[VK3DRB]

5. Why I believe private schools are waste of money.

I do agree with most points you've made but I simply have no Idea how anyone can have Faith in something such as Government implemented Public Schools.
Personally I have been in several public schools during my child-teenhood thanks to travelling Parents and I can only attest absolute and utter incompetence in anything Governments do wherever you go (even Switzerland) except raking in Tax Dollars.
True waste of Money.

It is probably different in Australia (well, certainly in Victoria). Many of our government schools are amazing and our teachers hard working and very dedicated. I know, being on a school council for a few years. One reason why foreigners try to move here... quality education for their kids.

My kids went to a government public secondary school nearby. In final year of high school, one got a perfect score (only 3 student in the state achieved this) in Systems and Technology, earning an award personally presented by the then Premier of Victoria, and he was one of the top students overall in his VCE (final year). The son was the top student in Engineering and Computer Science double degree in University and was awarded a trip to the Apple conference in the USA.

Another did not want to do maths in her final years, but I convinced her it is good to do maths as it will help develop a logical brain; and maths ability will be useful throughout her life. She was crying because it was so hard at the start of Year 11. But at the end of Year 12, she was one of the top students in the state in maths, getting her name in a major newspaper for a near perfect score in the subject. In Year 11, she had won a full scholarship to an exclusive private school, and attended the private school for only two weeks before rejecting it, promising she will do just as well in the government school, if not better. The daughter then did a few undergrad degrees and completed her PhD at Melbourne Uni in record time, then moved to France where she did a masters in International Relations at the University of Strasbourg.

As for me, I went to a reputedly one of the worst government high schools around. My widowed mum could not afford to send me to the nearby "exclusive" local private school. But I got though and entered university to study engineering. No private school needed.

Many government schools here are excellent, and a student with good attitude and aptitude and supportive parents will do just as well in a public school as a private school, and usually better at university if they choose that path because at university they are not hand-fed information just to get marks. The old boys club from private schools means nothing in this country any more. It's in the past when some level of class distinction from English culture existed here, and is fortunately now gone. However, some parents still send their kids into exclusive private schools for the prestige, ie: to save face. A lot of these private schools have a Christian facade, but the reality is they they will accept anyone with money. Even atheists with money send their kids to these schools. In advanced academia, the old boys club means nothing.

Some private schools here cost >$40,000 per year per student; and many are around $35,000 per year. Government schools cost no more than $2000 per year as a contribution. In engineering there is no way of telling whether an engineer went to a private school or a government school.

Hence why I believe private schools are on the whole, a waste of money. It might not be the same for other countries or states.

[SerieZ]

5. Why I believe private schools are waste of money.

I do agree with most points you've made but I simply have no Idea how anyone can have Faith in something such as Government implemented Public Schools.
Personally I have been in several public schools during my child-teenhood thanks to travelling Parents and I can only attest absolute and utter incompetence in anything Governments do wherever you go (even Switzerland) except raking in Tax Dollars.
True waste of Money.

It is probably different in Australia (well, certainly in Victoria). Many of our government schools are amazing and our teachers hard working and very dedicated. I know, being on a school council for a few years. One reason why foreigners try to move here... quality education for their kids.

My kids went to a government public secondary school nearby. In final year of high school, one got a perfect score (only 3 student in the state achieved this) in Systems and Technology, earning an award personally presented by the then Premier of Victoria, and he was one of the top students overall in his VCE (final year). The son was the top student in Engineering and Computer Science double degree in University and was awarded a trip to the Apple conference in the USA.

Another did not want to do maths in her final years, but I convinced her it is good to do maths as it will help develop a logical brain; and maths ability will be useful throughout her life. She was crying because it was so hard at the start of Year 11. But at the end of Year 12, she was one of the top students in the state in maths, getting her name in a major newspaper for a near perfect score in the subject. In Year 11, she had won a full scholarship to an exclusive private school, and attended the private school for only two weeks before rejecting it, promising she will do just as well in the government school, if not better. The daughter then did a few undergrad degrees and completed her PhD at Melbourne Uni in record time, then moved to France where she did a masters in International Relations at the University of Strasbourg.

As for me, I went to a reputedly one of the worst government high schools around. My widowed mum could not afford to send me to the nearby "exclusive" local private school. But I got though and entered university to study engineering. No private school needed.

Many government schools here are excellent, and a student with good attitude and aptitude and supportive parents will do just as well in a public school as a private school, and usually better at university if they choose that path because at university they are not hand-fed information just to get marks. The old boys club from private schools means nothing in this country any more. It's in the past when some level of class distinction from English culture existed here, and is fortunately now gone. However, some parents still send their kids into exclusive private schools for the prestige, ie: to save face. A lot of these private schools have a Christian facade, but the reality is they they will accept anyone with money. Even atheists with money send their kids to these schools. In advanced academia, the old boys club means nothing.

Some private schools here cost >$40,000 per year per student; and many are around $35,000 per year. Government schools cost no more than $2000 per year as a contribution. In engineering there is no way of telling whether an engineer went to a private school or a government school.

Hence why I believe private schools are on the whole, a waste of money. It might not be the same for other countries or states.

I believe you, but to me that is Anecdotal at best.
What my (Anecdotal  as well) Experience is that the Politician who advocate for more Public School end up sending their Kids to Private ones and are only interested in looking good/pushing their Agenda onto the youngest.

I wonder why? 

[Rick Law]

I think we are conflated a few related issues into one.  High-IQ genius vs child prodigy, and learn vs do.

By definition, a child prodigy merely means they can do certain things at a much younger age than average.  A very young kid performing say piano at concert quality is a child prodigy.  That kid probably also have higher than average IQ but not necessarily so, and certainly not necessarily a genius level high IQ.  Whereas, the kid who went to college at 8 probably has a high IQ.  The one who is about to graduate at 9 has an IQ of 145 per the linked article.

Drawing from the knowledge of Jordan Peterson (Clinical Psychologist, Professor of Psychology at U of Toronto) and from his on-line youtube lectures:
(A) One with higher IQ learns faster, but doesn't mean doing it any better;
(B) Higher the IQ, slower the maturity - both mental and physical;
(C) While IQ changes during the life time, but it is largely determined by genetics.  Absent brain damage of some sort, the high-IQer would stay a high-IQer in his/her life time.  (That is assuming no deprivation during development - such as not enough nutrition during early stage which will prevent one to develop to the level suggested by one's genes).
(D) Absorbing knowledge and absorbed knowledge are different.  Once the knowledge absorbed, the person can have a physical damage slowing him/her down in learning but that will not affect already absorbed knowledge at all (unless that part of the brain is also damaged).
^{( PS: Please do not debate the other thing Jordan is famous for - his out outspokenness on his objection to the Canada C16 law as compelled speech.  That is not relevant to this issue at hand. )}

The rest are not directly from Jordan but from what I surmised after learning from his on-line lectures and other sources:
 
Child Prodigy (without an associating much higher than average IQ) merely means that he/she started playing violin as good or better than other concert violinist very young, but as time goes on other younger kids with good violin aptitude will catch up.  Often, at that time the child prodigy as grown-up got depressed that "I am no longer special".  That "no longer special" situation is very difficult to get over and is one of the reason why child prodigy doesn't always result in a happy and successful adulthood.

On the other hand, kids with exceedingly high IQ will (on average) be able to learn faster than others with lower IQ.  The higher-IQer are "running faster".  Thus, as long as that higher-IQ keeps running, the lower-IQer can never catch up because they cannot run as fast.  The delta will just keep getting bigger.  That said, while the higher-IQer learn (say EE) quicker than average, it doesn't mean he/she designs better than average.

Here is where nature is playing a cruel game on us.  If you are very high IQ, you can go to college at a very young age with the older and more mature kids.  On average, you are not even as mature as people in your own age group and now you are up against the older and more matured college age kids...   But if you do manage to get there (there being your goal) even if immaturely, you can stay ahead and get further than others.

[EEVblog]

Here is where nature is playing a cruel game on us.  If you are very high IQ, you can go to college at a very young age with the older and more mature kids.  On average, you are not even as mature as people in your own age group and now you are up against the older and more matured college age kids...   But if you do manage to get there (there being your goal) even if immaturely, you can stay ahead and get further than others.

Yet there seems to be little to no evidence that the high IQ's who graduated super early go on to be be more successful?

[EEVblog]

As for me, I went to a reputedly one of the worst government high schools around.

I went to literally the worst public high school in the country, famously documented in front page news around the country.

[Rick Law]

Here is where nature is playing a cruel game on us.  If you are very high IQ, you can go to college at a very young age with the older and more mature kids.  On average, you are not even as mature as people in your own age group and now you are up against the older and more matured college age kids...   But if you do manage to get there (there being your goal) even if immaturely, you can stay ahead and get further than others.

Yet there seems to be little to no evidence that the high IQ's who graduated super early go on to be be more successful?

Too bad we don't have solid IQ information on most of the successful individuals out there.  One can only use reasoning to guess at the answer.

I think your question actually points to the proof that "learning faster" alone is not adequate a lift into automatic success.  Only the few that can "learning faster", "do better", and "can handle the maturity issue" have a chance of fully enjoy the gift of a high IQ.  Missing any one of the three may turn a blessing into a curse.

In one of my earlier replies in this thread, I cited the Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski) example.  According to Wikipedia, he has 167 IQ and started university early and graduated younger than average.  But his inability to handle the social interaction issues led him to eventual life-imprisonment.

[VK3DRB]

Here is where nature is playing a cruel game on us.  If you are very high IQ, you can go to college at a very young age with the older and more mature kids.  On average, you are not even as mature as people in your own age group and now you are up against the older and more matured college age kids...   But if you do manage to get there (there being your goal) even if immaturely, you can stay ahead and get further than others.

Yet there seems to be little to no evidence that the high IQ's who graduated super early go on to be be more successful?

Plenty of evidence. Education-wise they are definitely successful because they met their goals - even if they drive taxis.

Successful is merely achieved ones goals. Osama Bin Laden was success for a long time. Unfortunately most people equate success to money, which is nonsense unless it is their prime goal. Another annoyance is the term "he or she is highly sophisticated. To me that means complex. Most engineers are highly sophisticated, albeit sometimes socially challenged. Sophisticated is not the Kim Kardashboards of this world who have little talent other than self-promotion.

One thing I do note in my engineering career is those with high IQ does not necessarily mean that have common sense, the ability to handle one's finances, or the ability to relate to people.

[VK3DRB]

...In one of my earlier replies in this thread, I cited the Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski) example.  According to Wikipedia, he has 167 IQ and started university early and graduated younger than average.  But his inability to handle the social interaction issues led him to eventual life-imprisonment.

Ted Bundy had an IQ of 136. Another killer, Nathan Leopold, had an IQ of 210 and graduated from Uni of Michigan at age 17. He apparently spoke 15 languages.
Robert Stroud (the Birdman of Alcatraz) had an IQ of 136. But most criminals, contrary to popular opinion, have a low IQ and are dumb enough to get caught.