Author Topic: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.  (Read 25040 times)

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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2018, 02:17:26 am »
Quote
I fear that this is his parents pushing him to do this stuff, and that scares me
"His father said his son had struggled when he was younger to play with other children, and had not been particularly interested in toys." and "If he decided tomorrow to become a carpenter, that would not be a problem for us, as long as he is happy," his father said." His parents aint pushing him he's a really gifted child he's not interested in day to day banality his "head" is and has always been somewhere else maybe mathematics.
 

Offline Koen

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2018, 03:34:37 am »
I would really like to hear the mechanics of this. Did he start in a first grade and then jumped one up every month?
He completed "years" 1-2 last June, 3-4 this January and 5-6 this June. Sciences-Mathematics variant.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2018, 07:00:29 am »
The first line says it all:

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A Belgian boy has graduated secondary school aged eight after completing six years' study in just a year and a half.

If he has finished the study and passed the exact same exams as those in secondary school, what is he supposed to do then? Repeat them? That's just silly.
He has to move onto something.
At least in theory, assuming he's learned it all properly which I doubt.

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"If he decided tomorrow to become a carpenter, that would not be a problem for us, as long as he is happy," his father said.

Maybe not a problem, but they'd be bitterly disappointed and probably think he's wasted the opportunity he's been given I'm sure, that's just human nature.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 07:13:16 am by EEVblog »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2018, 07:12:42 am »
I would really like to hear the mechanics of this. Did he start in a first grade and then jumped one up every month?
He completed "years" 1-2 last June, 3-4 this January and 5-6 this June. Sciences-Mathematics variant.

I'd like to know the logistics behind this.
Ok, so he's bored and super smart and talented, but the usual thing in those cases is to look at putting them up a year. At what point does the school re-evaluate the kid every few months and decide to give him the proper grade tests and put him up a grade that quickly each time. Seems dodgy to me, and I can't see that happening that fast in a school here in Australia at least.
This kid is only a year older than Sagan (who's in year 2 and has another 10 years left). Sorry but I don't see how this is possible given the massive volume of stuff they have to learn these days. Who's teaching him a whole years worth of stuff in a few months? He'd have to have his own full time teacher that is doing some sort of specialised cramming course, you could not do this in ordinary classes, absolutely no way. I call bullshit on that he's learning it all properly that quickly.
And I'm also skeptical that the test are being done to the same standard. They develop new tests every year and very likely wouldn't had even had the year end tests ready at those point to give him?  :-//

Also,
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A Belgian boy has graduated secondary school aged eight after completing six years' study in just a year and a half.

At that age he had 10 years of learning left, not 6 1/2, what's going on?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 07:16:27 am by EEVblog »
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2018, 07:15:00 am »
Sorry but I don't see how this is possible given the massive volume of stuff they have to learn these days.
If any of this has any truth to it at all, I suspect just coaching to take standardized tests.

But the whole thing seems fishy.

At that age he had 10 years of learning left, not 6 1/2, what's going on?
He is a genius, he does not need to be limited by your understanding of time.
Alex
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2018, 07:18:55 am »
Also, my school required us to do some projects that naturally take a lot of time, like growing bean plants from the seed. You can't accelerate nature. Obviously that did not count towards any grade, but you can't claim that you have learned everything if you skip over parts that are not covered by tests.
Alex
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2018, 07:19:03 am »
If any of this has any truth to it at all, I suspect just coaching to take standardized tests.

That would be my guess, in which case he's going to be rather in-equipped in general education.

[/quote] He is a genius, he does not need to be limited by your understanding of time.
[/quote]

Obviously  ::)
Anyone who has a kid in school and knows the amount of work they have to go through, even in the early years knows this is fishy.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2018, 07:21:50 am »
Flip side question...
Would you hire an engineering graduate who bragged they finished their 4 year degree in 6 months because their university said they were a genius and they passed the tests?
If not, why not?
If yes, why?
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2018, 07:24:55 am »
Would you hire an engineering graduate who bragged they finished their 4 year degree in 6 months because their university said they were a genius and they passed the tests?
I always ask about spare time projects, because they show a real passion. And I doubt a person that crammed so much "studying" will have any. But if they do, then yes, sure.
Alex
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2018, 07:26:15 am »
Even if this kid finishes his degree in the standard 4 year time frame (unlikely given the existing scenario) he'll be at best 12 when he graduates. He's screwed employment wise unless he goes into business for himself somehow. He wouldn't even be able to teach at university as no student would respect a 12yo kid.
Probably no option but to continue onto graduate research or something.

I'm all for accelerating kids with the talent, but this seems beyond ridiculous.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2018, 07:29:03 am »
I always ask about spare time projects, because they show a real passion. And I doubt a person that crammed so much "studying" will have any.

Bingo, they won't have any.
There is value is "novelty hires" to companies though, so maybe that would actually work.
Edit: This kid did it:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/meet-the-teen-taking-ibm-and-artificial-intelligence-by-storm/8743880
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 07:31:25 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2018, 07:29:17 am »
Flip side question...
Would you hire an engineering graduate who bragged they finished their 4 year degree in 6 months because their university said they were a genius and they passed the tests?
If not, why not?
If yes, why?

I wouldn't.  One word decided it for me: "bragged".  If that was their attitude to their achievement, then I would be expecting there to be personality clashes with other team members.  No-one wants a Sheldon Cooper aggravating the workplace.
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2018, 07:34:54 am »
BTW, I don't think there is any way he's going to become a surgeon, that's just not going to work in such a heavily regulated industry. It would likely be illegal to give an underage kid a formal internship etc, so that would limit how far he could get in any set time frame.
That computer science kid is a different story, zero regulation there, but I think it would actually be illegal to a hire a 13yo kid in Australia as a full time employee for example. Maybe would have to do it as a contractor or something.
It's likely going to be one big legal mess, with many opportunities closed to you because of your age. In this situation I'd probably suggest the best course would be to go and get a degree and then continue on to the PhD, and then you pop out of the system as a legal age but still very novel young PhD grad.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 07:38:14 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2018, 07:37:08 am »
I can't see too many patients being thrilled at the idea of a surgeon who has to stand on a fruit box to reach the operating table.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2018, 07:39:55 am »
I wouldn't.  One word decided it for me: "bragged". 

Even if he didn't actually brag, bragging is kinda inferred anyway at such an extreme unusual thing.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2018, 07:40:41 am »
Same will go for lawyers. You would have to work as a paralegal for a few years. And realistically knowledge of math will not help you in either case.

Although there is a real-life example of such genius actually getting anywhere is life - Terence Tao. Wikipedia quote:
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Tao exhibited extraordinary mathematical abilities from an early age, attending university-level mathematics courses at the age of 9. He and Lenhard Ng are the only two children in the history of the Johns Hopkins' Study of Exceptional Talent program to have achieved a score of 700 or greater on the SAT math section while just nine years old; Tao scored a 760.[9] Tao was the youngest participant to date in the International Mathematical Olympiad, first competing at the age of ten; in 1986, 1987, and 1988, he won a bronze, silver, and gold medal. He remains the youngest winner of each of the three medals in the Olympiad's history, winning the gold medal shortly after his thirteenth birthday.

10-year-old Tao with Paul Erdős in 1985
At age 14, Tao attended the Research Science Institute. When he was 15, he published his first assistant paper. In 1991, he received his bachelor's and master's degrees at the age of 16 from Flinders University under Garth Gaudry. In 1992 he won a Fulbright Scholarship to undertake postgraduate study in the United States. From 1992 to 1996, Tao was a graduate student at Princeton University under the direction of Elias Stein, receiving his PhD at the age of 21.[10] He then (in 1996) joined the faculty of the University of California, Los Angeles. In 1999, when he was 24, he was promoted to full professor at UCLA and remains the youngest person ever appointed to that rank by the institution.

But note how it says "attending", not and not actually being enrolled.

He is also a really cool person, there are a lot of interviews and recordings of his lectures on YouTube, I can recommend watching them.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 07:43:43 am by ataradov »
Alex
 

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2018, 08:04:14 am »
Although there is a real-life example of such genius actually getting anywhere is life - Terence Tao. Wikipedia quote:
Quote
Tao exhibited extraordinary mathematical abilities from an early age, attending university-level mathematics courses at the age of 9. He and Lenhard Ng are the only two children in the history of the Johns Hopkins' Study of Exceptional Talent program to have achieved a score of 700 or greater on the SAT math section while just nine years old; Tao scored a 760.[9] Tao was the youngest participant to date in the International Mathematical Olympiad, first competing at the age of ten; in 1986, 1987, and 1988, he won a bronze, silver, and gold medal. He remains the youngest winner of each of the three medals in the Olympiad's history, winning the gold medal shortly after his thirteenth birthday.

10-year-old Tao with Paul Erdős in 1985
At age 14, Tao attended the Research Science Institute. When he was 15, he published his first assistant paper. In 1991, he received his bachelor's and master's degrees at the age of 16 from Flinders University under Garth Gaudry. In 1992 he won a Fulbright Scholarship to undertake postgraduate study in the United States. From 1992 to 1996, Tao was a graduate student at Princeton University under the direction of Elias Stein, receiving his PhD at the age of 21.[10] He then (in 1996) joined the faculty of the University of California, Los Angeles. In 1999, when he was 24, he was promoted to full professor at UCLA and remains the youngest person ever appointed to that rank by the institution.

But note how it says "attending", not and not actually being enrolled.

Yes, that's not the same as being enrolled like a full time student.
Note the PhD graduation at 21 even with such a brilliant exceptional early start. Ok, that's young for a PhD, but it doesn't make you the miracle wonderkid any more.
And that's likely going to be the realistic scenario of this Belgian kid.

I actually had a bit of a taste of this early success. I was 17, published, and already qualified in engineering when I got my first professional engineering job. Confused the crap out the recruitment agencies. I can remember being surprised when I turned 18 and they didn't automatically raise my pay. I asked why and they said, you don't work at MacDonalds, you were hired as a professional so it doesn't work like that for you kid. Doh.

Quote
He is also a really cool person, there are a lot of interviews and recordings of his lectures on YouTube, I can recommend watching them.

Yes, I've seen a couple of them.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2018, 08:47:54 am »
Positive criticism is good but it looks like you all are just not believing because it is outside the standards.

IMO the standards are the biggest problem of our schools,  they teach the mediocre level esp from age 4-11. There is just one program which means the brainwise less gifted children struggle and the more gifted are bored.
I was bored at the last four classes finished assignments in 10 minutes while the teacher gave thirty minutes and it made me a clown spending much time in the hallway. Does that help? No! Other children laughed but did not accept me so it taught me to blend in and in highschool I met the 6s standard ( grades are 1-10 a 6 passes ) which all kids did.
I am not a genius by far but it must be hell if you are, bored to death and teachers that have no time to give you fun and challenging tasks.
Luckily in our country the split is from age 12 up we select in three or four levels seperating the children in those levels. There is much criticism on that since it literally devides society, however from an education POV it is a good thing IMO.

 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2018, 09:16:01 am »
but I think it would actually be illegal to a hire a 13yo kid in Australia as a full time employee for example. Maybe would have to do it as a contractor or something.

There is no minimum age (at least in NSW).

But it used to be 14 years and 9 months before you could start earning a pay cheque. I know this from experience. I landed my first job at around age 14. All of that work for the first 9 months was purely voluntary. Don't get me wrong, I was working with computers and doing what I loved, so money meant nothing to me at that stage.

That has since changed by the looks of it, but some companies have a minimum age stipulated within their own corporate policies, for example, McDonalds won't hire anyone under 14 years of age.

 

Online Marco

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2018, 10:49:14 am »
Ok, so he's bored and super smart and talented, but the usual thing in those cases is to look at putting them up a year. At what point does the school re-evaluate the kid every few months and decide to give him the proper grade tests and put him up a grade that quickly each time. Seems dodgy to me, and I can't see that happening that fast in a school here in Australia at least.
As I said, I think he was homeschooled (kids still have to take official exams). There's also some Montessori type and gifted schools which don't have fixed grade classes at all.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2018, 12:17:38 pm »
but I think it would actually be illegal to a hire a 13yo kid in Australia as a full time employee for example. Maybe would have to do it as a contractor or something.

There is no minimum age (at least in NSW).

Well I'd LOVE to start paying Sagan a full time wage, nothing at all to do with tax...  8)
But you can't work full time if you haven't finished year 10 or are at least 17:
http://www.lawstuff.org.au/nsw_law/topics/employment/What-age-can-I-start-work
And young people can actually get taxed more:
https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/investing/in-detail/children-and-under-18s/your-income-if-you-are-under-18-years-old/
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2018, 12:24:04 pm »
Positive criticism is good but it looks like you all are just not believing because it is outside the standards.

For me it's not a matter of believing that a kid can be years ahead of everyone else, but in this case broad education.
This kid is a full 10 years ahead of everyone else. That means to get the same broad level education he has to have crammed all that same 10 years worth of information into the previous years (only a few years by the sounds of it). It doesn't add up, it seems obvious that something has to have been scarified to achieve that IMO.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2018, 12:26:19 pm »
Ok, so he's bored and super smart and talented, but the usual thing in those cases is to look at putting them up a year. At what point does the school re-evaluate the kid every few months and decide to give him the proper grade tests and put him up a grade that quickly each time. Seems dodgy to me, and I can't see that happening that fast in a school here in Australia at least.
As I said, I think he was homeschooled (kids still have to take official exams). There's also some Montessori type and gifted schools which don't have fixed grade classes at all.

Yes, it has to be something like that. I can't see a regular state or privately run school allowing a kid to fully progress graduate at such an absurdly young age. At least I can't see that happening here.
The youngest in Australia to "sit the HSC" (essentially our final year school/university entrance exam) was 11yo:
https://www.smh.com.au/education/study-gifted-children-benefit-from-bypassing-school-for-university-20141223-12cnf0.html
But even then it just "sitting the exam", may not actually be fully graduating year 12 at high school.
Another 13yo kid "blitzed HSC extension maths", so sounds very much like just passing certain subjects in order to get into a particular university course, of which there is usually no minimum age requirement.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 12:34:28 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline Alex Nikitin

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2018, 12:56:23 pm »
I was thinking about this a bit, and a thought crossed my mind, for which I want to hear some opinions from people from different countries.

How is it even possible to finish school in 1.5 years? I don't think such thing is possible in Russia (where I grew up). None of the examination systems are  set up to take exams for multiple years.

How does it even work? Do you need to just pass some combined exam, or exams designed to be passed year after year? Who takes the exam? In many places examination commissions are assembled only during the exam time. Somebody had to get paid for conducting the exam.

I would really like to hear the mechanics of this. Did he start in a first grade and then jumped one up every month?

How does it work in your country?

Edit: We also had to pass PE, for example. Did he actually do the PE on same level as 18 year old kids? IQ won't help you jump high :)

Oh, even in the USSR that happened occasionally. My younger brother has finished a special "math" secondary school in Moscow when he was 13 , 3-4 years earlier than "normal". That was in the early 1970th.

Cheers

Alex
 

Offline Koen

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2018, 02:59:25 pm »
Plenty above is wrong. There are articles about him, about his school, about his peers, about his hobbies and about the experts who help him and his family. There's no need to speculate.
 


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