Author Topic: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.  (Read 25030 times)

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Offline Echo88

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2018, 10:06:10 pm »
If the story of the film A Beautiful Mind were written by Ataradov then Matt Damon would prepare his janitor-ass to do PE and analyze Jane Eyre, instead of solving math equations that nobody can solve.   :-DD
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2018, 10:08:40 pm »
If the story of the film A Beautiful Mind were written by Ataradov then Matt Damon would prepare his janitor-ass to do PE and analyze Jane Eyre, instead of solving math equations that nobody can solve.   :-DD
A Beautiful Mind has Russell Crowe in it. You are thinning about Good Will Hunting. And it was at the university, I'm ok with  not having PE there.

Actually I'm ok with not having PE anywhere. I'm not ok with claiming that you have graduated the school without actually doing everything other students did. This lowers their achievement.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 10:10:57 pm by ataradov »
Alex
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2018, 10:45:19 pm »
When I was in college, the PE classes for non majors (anyone who does not major in PE or a closely related field) are about a basic understanding of the subject and physically doing well at it is barely considered in the grade - for example, in weightlifting, knowing how to do it safely and correctly is far more important than being able to lift really large amounts of weight.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2018, 03:28:27 am »
Even assuming everything is good and he goes to college at 8...

Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski), a mathematics prodigy and a killer, went to Harvard at 16.  At 25, he became the youngest assistant professor at UC Berkeley.

He was not emotionally ready for college.  It is widely believe that it was his feeling out of place that he became an outcast.  A couple of years after Berkeley, he moved to live in the mountain like a hermit, make just enough to live on and to build bombs.  In his dozen or so attacks, 3 deaths (I think).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

It takes more than just knowledge to go to college.  It takes emotional maturity as well.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2018, 04:56:39 am »
As if one bad example would be significant for the whole group, I think there are more terrorists without extreme high iq that never made university before age 10  ;)
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2018, 05:01:24 am »
As if one bad example would be significant for the whole group, I think there are more terrorists without extreme high iq that never made university before age 10  ;)
No, but that's a good argument against encouraging this king of skipping ahead. Even if regular school drags some genius behind a bit.

You can not ignore recommendation of psychologists and child development specialists if you want a healthy society on a big scale. And that's what public education aims to do.

It is fine of some people here and there do things at an accelerated rate, of course.
Alex
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2018, 05:48:13 am »
It takes more than just knowledge to go to college.  It takes emotional maturity as well.

This is, IMHO, a more important factor in the success of higher learning than the ability to understand the material being taught.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2018, 05:48:38 am »
but I think it would actually be illegal to a hire a 13yo kid in Australia as a full time employee for example. Maybe would have to do it as a contractor or something.

There is no minimum age (at least in NSW).

Well I'd LOVE to start paying Sagan a full time wage, nothing at all to do with tax...  8)

I'm sure someone has already tried that on at some stage.
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2018, 06:14:22 am »
So he goes into the uni at 8, gets masters at 10. What's next? He will not be able to find employment for a few more years.

There. Fixed it for you.  8)

Quote
I fear that this is his parents pushing him to do this stuff, and that scares me.

No amount of pushing can accomplish *that*. He must have been willing and able.

Quote
Is he in a rush to get somewhere?

Maybe. Is that a bad thing?
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2018, 07:42:49 am »
No, but that's a good argument against encouraging this king of skipping ahead. Even if regular school drags some genius behind a bit.
You can not ignore recommendation of psychologists and child development specialists if you want a healthy society on a big scale. And that's what public education aims to do.
It is fine of some people here and there do things at an accelerated rate, of course.
No it is a terrible argument since this kind of terrorist behaviour indicates a lack of moral conscience which is something developed (or not) before the age of 4.
Or as we have seen in the last years can be programmed in peoples mind feeding them continuously hatefull bad information.
It has nothing to do with if someone at a young age is gifted in something and that gift is stimulated, at later age that all can become balanced again.
We are discussing things here none of us are experts at, so we are talking out of our behind.
If some psychologists came on this forum discussing electronic circuits on this level we would be  :palm: all the time.
 

Offline Alex Nikitin

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2018, 08:13:00 am »
We are discussing things here none of us are experts at, so we are talking out of our behind.
If some psychologists came on this forum discussing electronic circuits on this level we would be  :palm: all the time.

1) ~90% of psychology is BS anyway (and I did a full psychology course in the uni as a part of my degree) and the child development psychology even more so.

2) Skipping some school years if you can do it (speaking from a personal experience) can be very beneficial in some respects (personal development) and difficult in other respects (social interactions). I wouldn't exchange the first for the second though but it is me, for someone else it may be different.

3) IMHO, if you are not challenged enough in your school years it is not just a waste of valuable time, but it suppresses your future development very badly. If you are lucky, a good teacher can be a lot of help in this respect, but not many teachers can provide the necessary support.

4) I wish all the best to this Belgian boy, it won't be an easy life for him but it could be a lot of fun  ;) .

Cheers

Alex

P.S. - you can not force this kind of development, it is always the result of child's own intent, and adults (parents and teachers) can only support it or arrest it, the second is more common, unfortunately.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 08:24:20 am by Alex Nikitin »
 

Online Marco

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2018, 11:53:36 am »
Although there is a real-life example of such genius actually getting anywhere is life - Terence Tao.

I find it a pity that people like this so often find their happiness working on what is essentially advanced numerology. Sure there is a chance that one of those number theorems will be the basis of something useful, but it's not entirely likely. It would be nice if the brightest gravitated towards the fields which most contribute to human welfare. At this point prime number theory ain't it.

Could be worse though, he could have spend his time as an investment quant.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 11:55:50 am by Marco »
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2018, 02:20:15 pm »
Even assuming everything is good and he goes to college at 8...

Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski), a mathematics prodigy and a killer, went to Harvard at 16.  At 25, he became the youngest assistant professor at UC Berkeley.

He was not emotionally ready for college.  It is widely believe that it was his feeling out of place that he became an outcast.  A couple of years after Berkeley, he moved to live in the mountain like a hermit, make just enough to live on and to build bombs.  In his dozen or so attacks, 3 deaths (I think).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

It takes more than just knowledge to go to college.  It takes emotional maturity as well.
Agreed and going from the Wikipedia, it's likely he has autism, hence why he found it so difficult to interact with older children. I suppose autism wasn't widely known about back then, so it's excusable.

Quote
I fear that this is his parents pushing him to do this stuff, and that scares me
"His father said his son had struggled when he was younger to play with other children, and had not been particularly interested in toys." and "If he decided tomorrow to become a carpenter, that would not be a problem for us, as long as he is happy," his father said." His parents aint pushing him he's a really gifted child he's not interested in day to day banality his "head" is and has always been somewhere else maybe mathematics.
Going from that, it seems likely he also has autism, which is more common in child geniuses. If that's the case, sending him to university will not fix this. I think more time should be spent on improving his social skills, rather than on academia.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2018, 06:30:31 pm »
As if one bad example would be significant for the whole group, I think there are more terrorists without extreme high iq that never made university before age 10  ;)

I agree one example does not describe the whole group.  But it would be foolish not to consider emotional aspects.  Even with grade-skipping, it could cause more emotional harm than it does academic good.

Just think about typical human behavior - who would be the class leader?  The person who is more mature/older or the one that is younger and acting like one?  So, in my estimation, the one entering a class a few years younger than his/her classmate will more likely become follower than leader, more likely to be timid than assertive...

I'd rather have a leader graduating on-time than a follower graduating a year sooner.
 

Offline Yansi

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2018, 06:41:47 pm »
I'd argue the reverse. There is a tendency to slow down sharp minds for the sake of the rest of the group, leading them to get bored, act up or even completely give up on academics. I think there's a focus on children lagging behind, but children ahead of the game are too often left to fend for themselves. Just because they're smart doesn't mean they understand how they tick or what their needs are yet and that can really bite.
I found many of the university classes "slow", especially the ones about power electronics.
Had a similar school experience, one teacher in particular made me keep repeating very basic arithmetic ad nauseam. Think it led to my general dislike of maths as a subject. Part of the problem is that many teachers don't actually understand the subject anyway, they just parrot the textbook at the students. Any student who asks awkward questions (that show up the teacher's own incompetence) is in for a world of pain.

I never really liked math for a long time, then cryptocurrency came along...

Power electronics education you say? That sounds very familiar to me. Came to the uni only to find out it won't give me anything new. Really nothing.  They teach only mainly stupid SCR stuff, then jump occasionally to IGBT, when clearly, the professor has little clue how these are used nowdays and how some of the DC/DC topologies look like.  The other interest I came for the uni was motor control. Not that much new to me either (some fundamentals of control theory help a lot) - however the rest is just teaching garbage, sometimes not even close to the field of study. Like stupid economics, ecology, history (but not that technical one really). Jeez, I am now pissed at the uni.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2018, 06:47:03 pm »
Jeez, I am now pissed at the uni.
That's your problem with not understanding what the goals of the university are. If you need immediate practical knowledge on a specific subject, you need to look for training courses.

The goal of the university is to give you a way of thinking that lasts.
Alex
 

Offline Yansi

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2018, 08:00:41 pm »
What training courses do you have in mind specifically? Could you tell please?

I am fascinated by how sure you are about the state in which a university teaching is on a different continent.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2018, 08:06:30 pm »
What training courses do you have in mind specifically? Could you tell please?
I don't know what courses apply in your field of interest.

I am fascinated by how sure you are about the state in which a university teaching is on a different continent.
That stuff is pretty universal as far as I can see.

But for sure, continue to be disappointed with your university experience.
Alex
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2018, 09:20:06 pm »
Just think about typical human behavior - who would be the class leader?  The person who is more mature/older or the one that is younger and acting like one?  So, in my estimation, the one entering a class a few years younger than his/her classmate will more likely become follower than leader, more likely to be timid than assertive...
I'd rather have a leader graduating on-time than a follower graduating a year sooner.
I rather follow someone who knows what he is talking about rather than someone assertive talking bullocks  ;)
There are plenty of examples of so called assertive leaders with an iq of an ant and the ego of a gorilla.
But that is all besides the point, sure he won't be accepted by the group right away with the age difference besides of the iq difference. Does it matter? Ask him, perhaps he is happy with his studies and math puzzles just as a lot of our forum members are happy in their electronic shacks playing with T&M equipment and their buttons. Sure a social life is important which gets addressed automatically when he gets older. Perhaps he will find a gf with a same iq and interest or someone who is attracted to his intelligence.
 

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2018, 11:30:46 pm »
Ok, I understand the issue with maturity being a problem in university.  This is valid if you mix a 14-16 year old with 20-30 year old.  The way the 14-16 year old may be treated by the other older students may cause one type of mental maddening situation.  While, at home or vacation & trying to maintain friends who also have to deal with a special unusual situation.

But I think many of us here aren't carefully paying attention to the fact that this kid is 8 years old.  In the above case, I expect the 14-16 year old to be shunned and isolated in many ways which can be brutal.  But when it comes to the 20-30 year olds being in class with an 8 year old, the equation is truly different and undefined.  Yes, the 8 year old will still not be in with any outside older activities, but, I would not expect the 20-30 years olds treating an 8 year old as a younger graduate.  Even they must realize they are dealing with a real child 12 years younger and when in front of him, they will behave differently compared to being around a student only 4-5 years younger.

Think along the lines of having a 4 year younger brother, when you were 16, how would you treat them.  I have experience here.  Now, imagine you are 20 with an 8 year old aged brother.  You wont be giving your 8 year old brother the same treatment.

Also, being 8, I don't believe Laurent Simons friends of 7 to 9 year olds will shun him for going to university in the same way a 14 year old's 13-15 year old friends.

So, I say, yes, there will be development issues, but, in this special ultra young 8 year old's case, I don't think it will the nightmare scenario a few here are proposing.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 11:33:05 pm by BrianHG »
 

Offline Alex Nikitin

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2018, 11:15:56 am »
So, I say, yes, there will be development issues, but, in this special ultra young 8 year old's case, I don't think it will the nightmare scenario a few here are proposing.

Yes, I think you are quite correct. Even 1-2 years could make a lot of difference. I was two years younger than my classmates at the school, and that made my life there a sheer hell for most of the time. Did me a lot of good, actually, I can not complain  ::) . My little brother was 3-4 years younger than his classmates and had no trouble whatsoever, he was cared for and protected, and his mates were proud to have him around.

Cheers

Alex
 
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Offline saturation

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Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2018, 05:27:10 pm »
There are many studies of gifted, prodigy or geniuses, however the latter is defined.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/8028543/Gifted-children-no-more-likely-to-succeed.html

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/05/20/the-benefits-and-pressures-of-being-a-young-genius/often-child-prodigies-do-not-grow-into-adult-genius

I don't think anyone here believed this boy must grow into some advanced 'brainiac' genius.  And those articles are worded/driven to the same mistake.  Many of these children are just advanced for their age.  Usually this means they will most likely hit their potential much younger too.  If you look at my posts, I never said Laurent Simons was to become a genius.  However, he has the opertunity and time to study/major in more than 1 specialty at college level.  Something I'm envious of.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2018, 08:09:47 am »
There are many studies of gifted, prodigy or geniuses, however the latter is defined.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/8028543/Gifted-children-no-more-likely-to-succeed.html

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/05/20/the-benefits-and-pressures-of-being-a-young-genius/often-child-prodigies-do-not-grow-into-adult-genius

I don't think anyone here believed this boy must grow into some advanced 'brainiac' genius.  And those articles are worded/driven to the same mistake.  Many of these children are just advanced for their age.  Usually this means they will most likely hit their potential much younger too.  If you look at my posts, I never said Laurent Simons was to become a genius.  However, he has the opertunity and time to study/major in more than 1 specialty at college level.  Something I'm envious of.
Unfortunately they're often also delayed in in other aspects: socially and emotionally, even if they don't full-fill the diagnostic criteria for an autism spectrum disorder. They may catch up in other aspects later, but sending them to university and not allowing them to mix with children their own age will not help.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8.
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2018, 08:34:28 am »
Unless he's as well ahead in social skills as in tech matters, he's gonna have a hard time at the uni. If he's introverted or autistic or an asperger a thick skin would serve him well. Any intelligent student will clash not only with some other students, but with some teachers as well.
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 


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