Author Topic: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks  (Read 18302 times)

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Offline Gyro

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2023, 10:24:38 am »
Yes, I'm not sure if it was a David Attenborough* quote... 'No need to worry about the Earth, it will be just fine - It's the Human race that needs to worry'.


Edit: * Actually, I think it was Prof Iain Stewart.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 01:50:29 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2023, 12:43:12 pm »
Yes, I'm not sure if it was a David Attenborough quote... 'No need to worry about the Earth, it will be just fine - It's the Human race that needs to worry'.

Quite, I mean sets not forget that the first organisms on earth did not breath oxygen, then for some random reason they started producing it themselves and it was poisonous to them.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2023, 03:00:51 pm »
Yes, I'm not sure if it was a David Attenborough* quote... 'No need to worry about the Earth, it will be just fine - It's the Human race that needs to worry'.


Edit: * Actually, I think it was Prof Iain Stewart.
I think it was originally George Carlin, but the wording was a little more aggressive.
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2023, 05:34:02 pm »
Yes, I'm not sure if it was a David Attenborough* quote... 'No need to worry about the Earth, it will be just fine - It's the Human race that needs to worry'.


Edit: * Actually, I think it was Prof Iain Stewart.
I think it was originally George Carlin, but the wording was a little more aggressive.

I've independently said it many times to try and explain to people that we are not chasing some abstract goal that they must pay for against their will. This is about our survival. We rely on a particular range of habitats, if they change, as adaptable as we may be we won't cope, or least most of us won't which is the scarier option.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2023, 06:01:14 pm »
I've independently said it many times to try and explain to people that we are not chasing some abstract goal that they must pay for against their will. This is about our survival. We rely on a particular range of habitats, if they change, as adaptable as we may be we won't cope, or least most of us won't which is the scarier option.
There are people who have this religious notion that anything we do to change the planet is bad. I guess because this world that incessantly wants to kill you until you protect yourself from its excesses is seen as some kind of natural perfection we can only harm. If you look at things from a human centric point of view, far more people die from excessive cold than excessive heat. So, is a modicum of global warming a good or a bad thing? Species are currently dying off at a fairly rapid pace, but increased CO2 in the atmosphere appears to be increasing the world's plant bio-mass. So, there more living stuff around, but of a narrower range of species. Is that a good or a bad thing?

 

Offline james_s

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2023, 06:07:24 pm »
I'm used to 230V bulbs. US ones probably flicker less. Try looking at the THD in the current waveform or power consumption of a 230V incandescent bulb, when fed with a clean voltage signal. Many are over 20%. That's a clue to much that filament is heating and cooling every half cycle of the mains, and how much the light output is modulated.

It's true, they are different. 120V bulbs have shorter, thicker filaments that are significantly more efficient due to reduced heat losses, and 60Hz power is 20% higher frequency. When I visited the UK the flicker of discharge lamps was immediately obvious, it took a few days to get used to it. A 120V incandescent lamp, at least of the sort used for general illumination has no perceptible flicker. The one exception is some halogen lamps that had a built in diode so they ran on half wave DC. I think it was to make the filament smaller and thicker to improve optics and raise efficiency.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #106 on: April 07, 2023, 06:16:54 pm »
Leaving aside your irrelevant US political comments... I would have thought that, with your weather switching to shit, increasing wildfires etc, you would want the whole world to have an environmentalist policy!

The thing is, the most optimistic data I've seen suggests that with even the most drastic changes to our behavior the situation is essentially hopeless, the damage has already been done and we are around a century too late to do anything about it. I'm all in favor of clean air and water and such, but when it comes to climate change it's an exercise in futility to prevent it. Rather than taking drastic action in hopes of accomplishing something that can't be done, we would be better off putting that effort into mitigating the effects and adapting to deal with them. The climate has changed dramatically over the history of the planet, prior to humans it occurred more slowly and due to natural events, but the changes still occurred. The earth will be fine, it will survive long after we are extinct, and I am pretty confident that at some point, whether in my lifetime or not, there will be a major war or wars that are catastrophic and make human caused climate change the least of anyone's concerns.

As if that wasn't all enough, Europe and the USA could go completely "green" and other places like China, India, Russia, etc will pick up the slack. If we manage to phase out fossil fuels completely, other places will keep using them until we run out. Already a lot of the environmental restrictions have just shifted pollution to China, which I suppose is better for us but not quite the fix we like to think it is.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2023, 06:22:44 pm »
If you look at things from a human centric point of view, far more people die from excessive cold than excessive heat. So, is a modicum of global warming a good or a bad thing?



Putting it like that does not make you sound capable of offering anything of value to the debate. People die of more things than the hot or the cold, they die of other things too. Global warming means more than just, we get hotter, it is more accurately called climate change. And yes this is a problem. When your crops don't yield properly because the weather this year was too different to what the plants are used to you have a problem for example.

I got UK runner beans to grow in southern Italy, the first year a total of 3 plants survived with intensive nursing and I got 3 or 6 pods. I ate none of them, I persevered replanting last years seeds and after a decade I had them yielding a small crop "for fun" that provided a couple of meals when grown just like any other plant in the local clay soil rather than the compost in pots with lots of water that they had the first year. Had my life depended on it I would be dead.

Every year we have yet hotter temperatures, globally. Now back in the UK I start to see and hear of temperatures in the UK typical of southern Italy when I lived there 20 years ago, no doubt temperatures in southern Italy are hotter than before.

Not even in the last hottest day ever but the year before that I nearly collapsed due to the heat. It's easier to heat yourself up than it is to cool yourself down, fortunately I could jump into my car and run the air conditioning. - but each to their own crazy assumptions/justifications or religious convictions.
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2023, 06:28:07 pm »

The thing is, the most optimistic data I've seen suggests that with even the most drastic changes to our behavior the situation is essentially hopeless, the damage has already been done and we are around a century too late to do anything about it. I'm all in favor of clean air and water and such, but when it comes to climate change it's an exercise in futility to prevent it. Rather than taking drastic action in hopes of accomplishing something that can't be done, we would be better off putting that effort into mitigating the effects and adapting to deal with them.

You almost made the point but then lost it. If as you say the problem started long ago and we should just adapt, then how much adaption do we go through? technologically we will have limits, naturally it will become a matter of cost that no one wants to pay. If we need to adapt to deal with the last 100 years of doing nothing then surely we need to also stop doing whatever causes the problem, soon it will be a 110 year old problem, then a 120 year old problem and so forth. At some point the adaption will be too costly or there are no solutions. I mean what do you do, shoot yourself in the foot and say, It's OK, I have a bandage, put that on then shoot yourself in the foot again?
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #109 on: April 07, 2023, 06:45:38 pm »
I've independently said it many times to try and explain to people that we are not chasing some abstract goal that they must pay for against their will. This is about our survival. We rely on a particular range of habitats, if they change, as adaptable as we may be we won't cope, or least most of us won't which is the scarier option.
There are people who have this religious notion that anything we do to change the planet is bad. I guess because this world that incessantly wants to kill you until you protect yourself from its excesses is seen as some kind of natural perfection we can only harm. If you look at things from a human centric point of view, far more people die from excessive cold than excessive heat. So, is a modicum of global warming a good or a bad thing? Species are currently dying off at a fairly rapid pace, but increased CO2 in the atmosphere appears to be increasing the world's plant bio-mass. So, there more living stuff around, but of a narrower range of species. Is that a good or a bad thing?
This is true.

Humans will be fine. We live all over the planet from deserts and tundra to rainforests. Higher global temperatures, correlate with more humans not fewer. It's true, if temperatures rise, there will be some parts of the planet which become uninhabitable i.e. due to rises in sea level, but these will be more than outweighed by the areas of tundra and desert (warmer oceans mean more precipitation, not less) which will become suitable for agriculture.

I'm all for conservation and not polluting the planet, but the scare stories are bogus. People want power and manufacturing crises, is a great opportunity to grab more. The last three years has taught me to be very sceptical of "the science" because it's been we've been manipulated and lied to so much by the authorities and mainstream media. Political activism has infected many academic institutions it's difficult to know fact from fiction. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those who thinks anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy theory, but it's not as bad as the authorities lead is to believe.
 

Offline Xena E

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #110 on: April 07, 2023, 06:49:18 pm »
The elephant in the room is that there are just far too many of the problem species on the planet.

That species exponential population increase became long term unsustainable many centuries ago. The process is accelerating, and an opportunity for an effective natural cull has just been missed...

Yeah, the planet will be OK ...
 
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Offline IdahoManTopic starter

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #111 on: April 07, 2023, 06:52:27 pm »
Well, this Thread went off track.

Want to get back to: How-to-make-incandescent-bulbs-at-home?*

*Either from scratch, or by finding/retrofitting other sources of incandescent bulbs.
 

Offline Xena E

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #112 on: April 07, 2023, 07:07:27 pm »
Making incandescent lamps ... perhaps just stockpile them while you have the chance... unless, you need a new hobby.
 

Offline Kim Christensen

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #113 on: April 07, 2023, 07:19:20 pm »
Making incandescent lamps ... perhaps just stockpile them while you have the chance... unless, you need a new hobby.

That's what I did in 2013 when the government here announced the phase out of 100W incandescents for 2014.
Most of them are still in their original boxes in my basement.  ::)

« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 07:21:27 pm by Kim Christensen »
 
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Online Monkeh

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #114 on: April 07, 2023, 07:22:17 pm »
Well, this Thread went off track.

Want to get back to: How-to-make-incandescent-bulbs-at-home?*

*Either from scratch, or by finding/retrofitting other sources of incandescent bulbs.

You don't. Somehow, you'll survive.
 

Offline Xena E

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #115 on: April 07, 2023, 07:26:03 pm »
Making incandescent lamps ... perhaps just stockpile them while you have the chance... unless, you need a new hobby.

That's what I did in 2013 when the government here announced the phase out of 100W incandescents for 2014.
Most of them are still in their original boxes in my basement.  ::)

 :-+
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #116 on: April 07, 2023, 07:27:14 pm »
Well, this Thread went off track.

Want to get back to: How-to-make-incandescent-bulbs-at-home?*

*Either from scratch, or by finding/retrofitting other sources of incandescent bulbs.
Making incandescent bulbs in small numbers is pretty easy. You won't achieve the low cost of high volume manufacture, but it doesn't take any advanced processes or expensive equipment. Just basic glass blowing, some tungsten wire and a tank of inert gas. You can find instructions for achieving gas tight seals around the leadout wires in a number of places.

 

Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #117 on: April 07, 2023, 07:27:40 pm »

I'm all for conservation and not polluting the planet, but the scare stories are bogus. People want power and manufacturing crises, is a great opportunity to grab more. The last three years has taught me to be very sceptical of "the science" because it's been we've been manipulated and lied to so much by the authorities and mainstream media. Political activism has infected many academic institutions it's difficult to know fact from fiction. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those who thinks anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy theory, but it's not as bad as the authorities lead is to believe.

You mention "the science" once and you did not mean actual science. What the last 3 years taught us is that we cannot trust "the authorities" or "main stream media", well we sort of knew that already. It was also clear that over the last 3 years there was a battle of politicians wanting the science to say what they wanted it to while the scientists tried to keep their jobs. Scientists don't actually make the decisions, politicians do on their advice. Have you ever tried advising a non technical senior to do something they don't really want to do or that will cost a lot for their department or whatever? that was the story of my last job and even in this current job I can only advise, it is for the salesmen to decide what they want even if it is flying unicorns.

The next problem you have is people, they are just dumb stupid people that are under the illusion that scientists are some sort of all seeing beings and that they should have known anything that comes to light with "hindsight".

Most of the reasons for not pursuing a policy are about the abstract concept of economics. That system that allows people with money to stay that way and those without to just survive without and nothing must change or those that don't want to pay have to and those that can't afford it get to have it. It's job is not to solve any other problem other than maintain the status quo and keep the people who can make some real noise happy. This is generally the big decider behind any "political" decision, nothing to do with actual science.

There are plenty of things we can do differently, just differently, but people don't want to, people don't like change. People still think that electric cars are slow...... Is there a reason in 2023 why people should believe such a fallacy other than - because they want to because it justifies their resistance to change- ? I'm not asking them to buy one, just to stop being ignorant.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 07:29:59 pm by Simon »
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #118 on: April 07, 2023, 07:36:01 pm »
The last three years has taught me to be very sceptical of "the science" because it's been we've been manipulated and lied to so much by the authorities and mainstream media.
As soon as someone says "the science" its highly unlikely anything further that they say will be of any value. Science is a process, not a thing. Follow the process and you understand more. Follow "the science" and you are being manipulated.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #119 on: April 07, 2023, 07:37:10 pm »
Well, this Thread went off track.

Want to get back to: How-to-make-incandescent-bulbs-at-home?*

*Either from scratch, or by finding/retrofitting other sources of incandescent bulbs.

From your OP, your question (without the political crap) was...

Quote
So the question(s): How do I get regular lights for vehicle?

-Smuggle them somehow?
-How hard would it be to home-make a bulb?

We already established from actually reading the government document (Reply #50) that it has absolutely nothing to do with vehicle lights.

Case solved.
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline Nusa

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #120 on: April 07, 2023, 07:49:34 pm »
Seems like everyone has forgotten the original post was written on April 1st.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #121 on: April 07, 2023, 07:56:25 pm »
Seems like everyone has forgotten the original post was written on April 1st.

some jokes just are not jokes, you can't just laugh at stupid these days, as stupid becomes more dangerous. Democracy rules that the majority are right. I think it's fairly well established that the majority are stupid. I don't want my life run by people less intelligent than myself.
 
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Offline helius

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #122 on: April 07, 2023, 08:03:37 pm »
I think the timing on April 1st is coincidental this time (not every thread on April 1st is a hoax or joke).
Major bulb retailers like 1000bulbs.com have categories for items that will be banned effective June 2023.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #123 on: April 07, 2023, 09:00:52 pm »
The elephant in the room is that there are just far too many of the problem species on the planet.

That species exponential population increase became long term unsustainable many centuries ago. The process is accelerating, and an opportunity for an effective natural cull has just been missed...

Yeah, the planet will be OK ...
You're mistaken. It's not possible to extrapolate current trends so far into the future.

As countries become more technologically advanced, birth rates fall, quite often to the point when the population declines, rather than grows. It has happened in the West and in rich Asian countries such as Japan and now China. If the rest of the world is allowed to catch up, the same will happen there too. Policies which severely restrict economic growth in the West will have a knock effect on poorer countries with high birth rates, retarding growth there and putting off any fall in birth rate into the future.


I'm all for conservation and not polluting the planet, but the scare stories are bogus. People want power and manufacturing crises, is a great opportunity to grab more. The last three years has taught me to be very sceptical of "the science" because it's been we've been manipulated and lied to so much by the authorities and mainstream media. Political activism has infected many academic institutions it's difficult to know fact from fiction. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those who thinks anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy theory, but it's not as bad as the authorities lead is to believe.

You mention "the science" once and you did not mean actual science. What the last 3 years taught us is that we cannot trust "the authorities" or "main stream media", well we sort of knew that already. It was also clear that over the last 3 years there was a battle of politicians wanting the science to say what they wanted it to while the scientists tried to keep their jobs. Scientists don't actually make the decisions, politicians do on their advice. Have you ever tried advising a non technical senior to do something they don't really want to do or that will cost a lot for their department or whatever? that was the story of my last job and even in this current job I can only advise, it is for the salesmen to decide what they want even if it is flying unicorns.

The next problem you have is people, they are just dumb stupid people that are under the illusion that scientists are some sort of all seeing beings and that they should have known anything that comes to light with "hindsight".

Most of the reasons for not pursuing a policy are about the abstract concept of economics. That system that allows people with money to stay that way and those without to just survive without and nothing must change or those that don't want to pay have to and those that can't afford it get to have it. It's job is not to solve any other problem other than maintain the status quo and keep the people who can make some real noise happy. This is generally the big decider behind any "political" decision, nothing to do with actual science.

There are plenty of things we can do differently, just differently, but people don't want to, people don't like change. People still think that electric cars are slow...... Is there a reason in 2023 why people should believe such a fallacy other than - because they want to because it justifies their resistance to change- ? I'm not asking them to buy one, just to stop being ignorant.
I used the term "the science" because it's what politicians have said to justify  authoritarian policies in the past.

Science should involve questioning everything. The problem is it's no longer possible to do that. Plenty of scientists have tried to warn the government their draconian policies would do more harm than good, yet were subject to censorship. Governments put pressure on social media companies to censor things they felt were harmful, under the guise of suppressing misinformation. Politics is no longer separate from science. Universities have become breeding grounds for political activism. Funding is denied to research because it might yield "inconvenient" results.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #124 on: April 07, 2023, 09:27:45 pm »
Politics is no longer separate from science.
When has this not been the case? I mean, back when politics and religion were one and the same, they literally murdered, banished, or imprisoned scientists under the guise of “heresy”.

Universities have become breeding grounds for political activism.
Aside from the fact that political activism has always been one aspect of academia, since both academia and politics exist in the same universe, I don’t think there’s actually any evidence to support claims of this being more so now than in the past (as the wording “have become” implies). The only thing I see as having changed is that now a certain segment of the population has their knickers in a twist about it, having been whipped to a froth by disingenuous “news”casters and social media fearmongers.
 
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