General > General Technical Chat
Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: coppice on April 07, 2023, 07:36:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 07, 2023, 06:45:38 pm ---The last three years has taught me to be very sceptical of "the science" because it's been we've been manipulated and lied to so much by the authorities and mainstream media.
--- End quote ---
As soon as someone says "the science" its highly unlikely anything further that they say will be of any value. Science is a process, not a thing. Follow the process and you understand more. Follow "the science" and you are being manipulated.
--- End quote ---
Yep. Exactly.
Well, politicians saying "science" in a sentence: that's almost a guarantee they are yanking your chain. They use it as the new higher authority, just like they used religion when religion still had considerable power. It's never about being closer to provable facts, it's always about power.
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 07, 2023, 09:00:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: Xena E on April 07, 2023, 06:49:18 pm ---The elephant in the room is that there are just far too many of the problem species on the planet.
That species exponential population increase became long term unsustainable many centuries ago. The process is accelerating, and an opportunity for an effective natural cull has just been missed...
Yeah, the planet will be OK ...
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You're mistaken. It's not possible to extrapolate current trends so far into the future.
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Population *growth* is declining in many countries, even in Africa, with some latency. In a few decades from now, it won't be nearly what it is now, that's almost a guarantee.
And yes, the planet will be OK. It has survived much worse. The question is about us, not about the planet. Are we going to be OK in a few centuries from now? I have no clue.
But is the planet going to be OK? That's for sure. The planet doesn't care about our shit.
We keep saying "the planet" as if to avoid explicitely saying that all we care about is actually us, and it hasn't changed, it's just gotten much worse. We only care about our fricking destiny.
Let's leave "the planet" alone and start being honest. It has never been about anything else than us, and is unlikely to ever be about anything else until it's too late for us.
Claming we care and are going to save "the planet" is just bullshit. We are just trying to save ourselves, and not all of us either. :popcorn:
coppice:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 07, 2023, 09:38:57 pm ---Population *growth* is declining in many countries, even in Africa, with some latency. In a few decades from now, it won't be nearly what it is now, that's almost a guarantee.
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Its pretty much a guarantee, if you look at examples like China. Their birth rate didn't fall by a change in culture. as in most countries. It was enforced. Many people thought that when the brakes were turned off there would be a pent up demand for parenthood. It hasn't happened. The birth rate there continues to fall, even though the government now encourages larger families. A generation of people who grew up as the only child doesn't seem to see a large family as normal any more. My wife and I have no siblings. We have two children, which is a little below replacement, and it feels like we have a substantial family.
Simon:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 07, 2023, 09:00:52 pm ---
I used the term "the science" because it's what politicians have said to justify authoritarian policies in the past.
Science should involve questioning everything. The problem is it's no longer possible to do that. Plenty of scientists have tried to warn the government their draconian policies would do more harm than good, yet were subject to censorship. Governments put pressure on social media companies to censor things they felt were harmful, under the guise of suppressing misinformation. Politics is no longer separate from science. Universities have become breeding grounds for political activism. Funding is denied to research because it might yield "inconvenient" results.
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Quite, you don't mean real science but the claim that a politicians whim is now justified because they claim it is science when it is a cherry picked bunch of facts with a lot of caveats.
In the UK Chris Whitty was rather obviously on a leash and biting his lip, meanwhile people were selling mugs with the slogan that he should be prime minister instead. Of course stupid dogs will always follow the stupid pack they signed up to no matter where it's headed.
The other thing to remember is that a lot of what we see as the new bad is just the same old given more exposure due to the ease of communication and publishing these days. This of itself has generated a rise in people taking stupid decisions because they fear the potential bad exposure.
mendip_discovery:
--- Quote from: Simon on April 08, 2023, 07:55:51 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 07, 2023, 09:00:52 pm ---I used the term "the science" because it's what politicians have said to justify authoritarian policies in the past.
Science should involve questioning everything. The problem is it's no longer possible to do that. Plenty of scientists have tried to warn the government their draconian policies would do more harm than good, yet were subject to censorship. Governments put pressure on social media companies to censor things they felt were harmful, under the guise of suppressing misinformation. Politics is no longer separate from science. Universities have become breeding grounds for political activism. Funding is denied to research because it might yield "inconvenient" results.
--- End quote ---
Quite, you don't mean real science but the claim that a politicians whim is now justified because they claim it is science when it is a cherry picked bunch of facts with a lot of caveats.
In the UK Chris Whitty was rather obviously on a leash and biting his lip, meanwhile people were selling mugs with the slogan that he should be prime minister instead. Of course stupid dogs will always follow the stupid pack they signed up to no matter where it's headed.
The other thing to remember is that a lot of what we see as the new bad is just the same old given more exposure due to the ease of communication and publishing these days. This of itself has generated a rise in people taking stupid decisions because they fear the potential bad exposure.
--- End quote ---
I think this is linked to why people have also become sceptical about "Experts". Let us just wheel out someone who clearly doesn't see daylight often, get them to ask "Next slide please" every few seconds and hopefully people will assume they have all the answers.
During the pandemic, there were quite a few reporters with little else to do other than trying and second guess a lot of the info coming from 10 downing street. This led to lots of experts arguing over stuff much like how people here can argue over any electrical issue, both are wrong and right but it all depends on how deep into the ppb you are willing to go. Social media was full of armchair experts and keyboard warriors and the odd troll or two and information was so hacked up or nit picked over that nothing made much sense.
Going back to the OP thing, if the government doesn't try to encourage people to swap over no one will and eventually there will be some smug person telling them they should have done something earlier. I do find it funny that Americans get so worked up when they are told they can't do something but then are happy to be a nation going back in time when it comes to other subjects which would open a can of politics so I won't mention it.
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