Author Topic: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks  (Read 18321 times)

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Online Monkeh

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2023, 12:47:30 am »
So the question(s): How do I get regular lights for vehicle?

You buy them from the same place you can buy them today.

For those who are incapable of assessing any action without colouring it with their personal political biases, here are the actual rules being adopted instead of moronic hyperbole:

https://www.regulations.gov/document/EERE-2021-BT-STD-0012-0022

For those unwilling to go to the effort of research, I will quote 42 U.S. Code 6291 'Definitions':
Quote
For purposes of this part:
(1) The term “consumer product” means any article (other than an automobile, as defined in section 32901(a)(3) of title 49) of a type—

These regulations do not apply to automobiles and their components.
 
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Offline IdahoManTopic starter

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2023, 01:39:14 am »
So the question(s): How do I get regular lights for vehicle?

You buy them from the same place you can buy them today.

For those who are incapable of assessing any action without colouring it with their personal political biases, here are the actual rules being adopted instead of moronic hyperbole:

https://www.regulations.gov/document/EERE-2021-BT-STD-0012-0022

For those unwilling to go to the effort of research, I will quote 42 U.S. Code 6291 'Definitions':
Quote
For purposes of this part:
(1) The term “consumer product” means any article (other than an automobile, as defined in section 32901(a)(3) of title 49) of a type—

These regulations do not apply to automobiles and their components.

Thank you so much for addressing my assuming the worst of government, or for even imagining they might not have my best interests in mind.
 

Offline Sredni

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2023, 02:10:40 am »
I remember reading, at the time of the Nobel prize for physics going to the inventors of the blue LED, that a sizable chunk of the electric energy consumption (probably 30% but even if it was 15% it would be considerable) went into domestic and commercial lighting. Switching to LEDs, with their much higher efficiency, makes sense not only from an environmental point of view, but also from an economic point of view.

The technology has evolved to the point of giving a light that is much similar to the light of an incandescent bulb, but still I have to find a dimmable LED bulb that keeps that chromatic performance at low light levels. I bought the Philips with yellow phosphors that were touted as the best dimmable bulbs but when I turn down the dimmer the light is almost... grey. So, in a few rooms I still have my 100W incandescent bulbs - of which I bought quite a few before the disappeared from the local market. But there is no point in denying that LED technology is the best solution for home (and commercial, and industrial, and street) lighting.

As a matter of fact it's already a few years that I have converted those 30 - 50 grain LED light used for decoration into bottle lamps powered by 5V USB chargers. I use a constant current circuit made with two BJTs and two resistor (with a pot in case I want to regulate it finely) in the same topology as that used in the Dubai lamps, and they work just fine for ambient light and as reading lamps. The only downside is that with such low consumption (20-80 mA at 5V) the phone charger is working at a very low efficiency.
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Online BrianHG

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2023, 04:41:58 am »
The technology has evolved to the point of giving a light that is much similar to the light of an incandescent bulb, but still I have to find a dimmable LED bulb that keeps that chromatic performance at low light levels. I bought the Philips with yellow phosphors that were touted as the best dimmable bulbs but when I turn down the dimmer the light is almost... grey. So, in a few rooms I still have my 100W incandescent bulbs - of which I bought quite a few before the disappeared from the local market. But there is no point in denying that LED technology is the best solution for home (and commercial, and industrial, and street) lighting.
Google  - warm dimming led lights
EG: https://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/consumer/choose-a-bulb/warm-glow-dimmable-led-lighting



A few brands now make them.  They simulate the color temperature change as if you were dimming a tungsten light bulb.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 04:46:29 am by BrianHG »
 
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Offline Nusa

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2023, 05:46:46 am »
So the question(s): How do I get regular lights for vehicle?

You buy them from the same place you can buy them today.

For those who are incapable of assessing any action without colouring it with their personal political biases, here are the actual rules being adopted instead of moronic hyperbole:

https://www.regulations.gov/document/EERE-2021-BT-STD-0012-0022

For those unwilling to go to the effort of research, I will quote 42 U.S. Code 6291 'Definitions':
Quote
For purposes of this part:
(1) The term “consumer product” means any article (other than an automobile, as defined in section 32901(a)(3) of title 49) of a type—

These regulations do not apply to automobiles and their components.

Thank you so much for addressing my assuming the worst of government, or for even imagining they might not have my best interests in mind.

Thank you for a silly April Fools joke. Either you intended it, or you played it on yourself by posted on April 1st. Either way, a good joke!
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2023, 06:30:31 am »
Nahh, that 110W is likely lost in just turning the alternator anyway.

As the saying goes: "take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves".

But we Brits seem to have a bon mot for every circumstance, so there is also the saying: "penny wise, pound foolish".

Kind of surprised there's no money-related saying for sitting of the fence, though  :-//
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2023, 07:14:01 am »
Wasn't this done years ago?
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2023, 07:37:15 am »
Wasn't this done years ago?
Yes, and then in the circus that is US politics it was messed with, ignored, and repealed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_lighting_energy_policy
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2023, 12:17:28 pm »
Wasn't this done years ago?
Yes, and then in the circus that is US politics it was messed with, ignored, and repealed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_lighting_energy_policy

At one point a certain US president complained the reason his skin looked orange was due to LED lighting.  And that was apparently a reason to take action.
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2023, 12:39:09 pm »
I find it hilarious how people would want to still run incandescent bulbs and pay up to 4-10 times the electricity costs. Sure they have certain usage purposes, but if you stick to a reliable brand (preferably not some chinese rebranded junk) they last for ages and come in different color temps and dimmable versions.

I replaced my whole house when they had a 50% off sale and brought more spares in the next sale. Costs nothing compared to the power bills. I think some uninformed people don't realize certain governments would love you to throw more money at the utility companies, with people in energy efficient households and owning solar power someone has to be suckered in to paying more than others.
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Offline shapirus

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2023, 01:08:01 pm »
but if you stick to a reliable brand (preferably not some chinese rebranded junk) they last for ages
It's not only brand-dependent. Over the last few years I noticed that my LED lamps died quite often during the period when our mains voltage was on the low side, usually in the 200-210V range (nominal value is 230V, allowed deviation is +/- 10%). The damage was always the same: one of the leds burns out with a clearly visible black dot on the die. It was possible to repair the lamps by shorting the burned LED with a jumper wire.

Later, when they changed something and voltage started to be usually in the 230..250V range with the most frequently seen value being about 240V, the lamps began to die very rarely. Those that die, do it slowly: they begin to flicker randomly etc., eventually failing. I didn't find obviously burned LEDs in those failed lamps.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2023, 05:52:54 pm »
There is another valid reason some prefer incandescent. In parts of the midwest USA there are very frequent thunderstorms, lightning induced power surges are very common and destructive to electronics, Incandescent is much more robust and resistant to surges. I also have to admit that the light quality of incandescent is at least slightly better than even the best LED bulbs. You just can't beat the smooth continuous spectrum, perfect 100 CRI and complete lack of flicker. Good LED bulbs are good enough for most of my purposes but if energy were free I would still choose incandescent for many of them.
 
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Offline coppice

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2023, 06:08:28 pm »
There is another valid reason some prefer incandescent. In parts of the midwest USA there are very frequent thunderstorms, lightning induced power surges are very common and destructive to electronics, Incandescent is much more robust and resistant to surges. I also have to admit that the light quality of incandescent is at least slightly better than even the best LED bulbs. You just can't beat the smooth continuous spectrum, perfect 100 CRI and complete lack of flicker. Good LED bulbs are good enough for most of my purposes but if energy were free I would still choose incandescent for many of them.
Huh? Incandescent lamps flicker. Its 100Hz/120Hz and doesn't go anywhere near zero, but its there. A decent LED has a really steady output.
 
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Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2023, 06:29:40 pm »
There is another valid reason some prefer incandescent. In parts of the midwest USA there are very frequent thunderstorms, lightning induced power surges are very common and destructive to electronics, Incandescent is much more robust and resistant to surges. I also have to admit that the light quality of incandescent is at least slightly better than even the best LED bulbs. You just can't beat the smooth continuous spectrum, perfect 100 CRI and complete lack of flicker. Good LED bulbs are good enough for most of my purposes but if energy were free I would still choose incandescent for many of them.

LoL, what a bunch of twaddle. I have had many bulbs pop due to a storm or power issues, the LED stuff seems to be holding up quite well. The LED panel I have in the shed is awesome, almost no shadows from it. I have LED sidelights and brake lights on my 110 Defender and on the many motorcycles I have and they deal with the bumps really well I seem to hardly ever have an issue with them compared to the 6V bulb on the Matchless that only needs to be looked at wrong and it goes *fizz* *pop*.

Will admit I was surprised by the CRI of 100 but that is making me wonder about the index in the first place. Floucesents are just horrible but I remember it was common practice to take photos we had processed in the darkroom outside so we could get a look for the colours in natural light as almost nothing compared to daylight. But even that has its moments depending on the time of day, weather, and angle of the gas ball in the sky. I am quite sensitive about the colour of light and I notice the changes more than most.

I think the general idea as suggested way back in this thread is if you could convert a significant proportion of people to convert then as a population of millions that makes a significant difference.

The only issue I have with LED is the noise.
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Online Monkeh

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2023, 06:42:35 pm »
There is another valid reason some prefer incandescent. In parts of the midwest USA there are very frequent thunderstorms, lightning induced power surges are very common and destructive to electronics, Incandescent is much more robust and resistant to surges.

They make surge suppressors for that. They're not even that expensive.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2023, 07:06:54 pm »

I'll tell you one thing, I'll be danged I'm going to put those gay, blue, hideous, over-bright, stabbing, abomination LED lights on my vehicle.

Thanks,
IM


So, just how are you able to determine the sexuality of an LED light, and why do you think its particular preference is a bad thing?
Gay=Happy, jolly
That’s clearly not what OP meant. They were using the puerile meaning of “gay” to mean “lame”.
Another example of misinterpretation "justified by modern times"; personally, I stick to the complete meanings, and I will promote the lost meanings; welcome to my fight.
I understand and accept that the language is a live, changing entity; at the same time I remember:"Those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it".
For our future discussions, please remember.
Thank you.
I believe the use of the term gay in the pejorative sense predates it meaning homosexual. I suppose I can see why some find it offensive, hence the moderator editing the original post, but life is too short to get upset. It should be obvious the OP wasn't gay bashing.

I also searched for the original Fox News source, and read it thoroughly. The news piece has this golden nugget, copied verbatim:

 Former President Donald Trump was also personally opposed to LED light bulb adoption, remarking in 2019 that they are often more expensive, not good and make him "look orange."
BAN LED LAMPS, LETS GO BRANDON! !  !  !
No seriously, there should be laws mandating minimum quality standards for LED lamps: efficiency, CRI, cooling, not too higher current density, minimum warranty, to ensure they last a decent length of time.
 

Offline Kim Christensen

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2023, 07:12:24 pm »
The only issue I have with LED is the noise.

You mean RFI? The bulbs I buy use a linear dropper IC to regulate the current. Not as efficient as a switcher, but no RFI either.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2023, 07:17:34 pm »
The only issue I have with LED is the noise.

You mean RFI? The bulbs I buy use a linear dropper IC to regulate the current. Not as efficient as a switcher, but no RFI either.
I prefer SMPS. It's easy to design a lamp which will work for both 120V and 240V, is more efficient and works at higher temperatures and it's not too difficult to design one which meets the EMC standards.

My favourite supply is the plain old capacitive dropper. It's efficient and simple. A big problem is many manufacturers skimp on the capacitor, so they blow up.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2023, 07:26:12 pm »
There is another valid reason some prefer incandescent. In parts of the midwest USA there are very frequent thunderstorms, lightning induced power surges are very common and destructive to electronics, Incandescent is much more robust and resistant to surges. I also have to admit that the light quality of incandescent is at least slightly better than even the best LED bulbs. You just can't beat the smooth continuous spectrum, perfect 100 CRI and complete lack of flicker. Good LED bulbs are good enough for most of my purposes but if energy were free I would still choose incandescent for many of them.

It's always the same. No one likes change and the old stuff is always the best - bring out every silly excuse and conspiracy around -. I have found LED's liberating, finally I can have a room light like by the sun. LED's do have good CRI if you bought them recently and it means you can have way more light. I used to feel very tired in the evenings, it was because fluorescent lamps are yellow, telling my brain to go to sleep. In a large room even with a 100W incandescent that is still not daylight it will not be good enough.

Me, myself and my better half share our evenings in a living room that is not even too big with a 40W corn on the cob 5500K light, and we love it. We are perfectly happy and active right up until bed time and no the "blue light" does not stop us from sleeping!
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2023, 07:40:08 pm »
There is another valid reason some prefer incandescent. In parts of the midwest USA there are very frequent thunderstorms, lightning induced power surges are very common and destructive to electronics, Incandescent is much more robust and resistant to surges. I also have to admit that the light quality of incandescent is at least slightly better than even the best LED bulbs. You just can't beat the smooth continuous spectrum, perfect 100 CRI and complete lack of flicker. Good LED bulbs are good enough for most of my purposes but if energy were free I would still choose incandescent for many of them.
Old fluorescent lamps with an iron ballast are tough and still beat incandescent.
 

Online abeyer

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2023, 08:00:55 pm »
I believe the use of the term gay in the pejorative sense predates it meaning homosexual. I suppose I can see why some find it offensive, hence the moderator editing the original post, but life is too short to get upset. It should be obvious the OP wasn't gay bashing.
I've only ever seen history/etymology that implies the opposite... would be interested if you have a source for that?
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2023, 08:11:07 pm »
I believe the use of the term gay in the pejorative sense predates it meaning homosexual. I suppose I can see why some find it offensive, hence the moderator editing the original post, but life is too short to get upset. It should be obvious the OP wasn't gay bashing.
I've only ever seen history/etymology that implies the opposite... would be interested if you have a source for that?

No please, STOP! or shall I just lock the thread. The idea of editing out the political crap was to not have this discussion, we all know where it ends.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2023, 08:34:55 pm »
Old fluorescent lamps with an iron ballast are tough and still beat incandescent.

Yuck. Back before modern trichromatic phosphors fluorescent lamps were good for utility lighting but nobody wanted those in living areas, CRI of the CW halophosphate lamps is around 53 IIRC, and on magnetic ballasts they flicker too, although the phosphor persistence makes that flicker tolerable to me.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2023, 08:42:41 pm »
It's always the same. No one likes change and the old stuff is always the best - bring out every silly excuse and conspiracy around -. I have found LED's liberating, finally I can have a room light like by the sun. LED's do have good CRI if you bought them recently and it means you can have way more light. I used to feel very tired in the evenings, it was because fluorescent lamps are yellow, telling my brain to go to sleep. In a large room even with a 100W incandescent that is still not daylight it will not be good enough.

Me, myself and my better half share our evenings in a living room that is not even too big with a 40W corn on the cob 5500K light, and we love it. We are perfectly happy and active right up until bed time and no the "blue light" does not stop us from sleeping!

Good for you, I also have been happily using LED lighting in my home for as long as it was available, as I mentioned I was an early adopter. It's good, but the light is not as good as incandescent, it's close, and the energy savings and long lifespan are enough to make me choose it, but the lower CRI and lack of continuous spectrum, which are objectively true and easily measured traits makes colors look less vibrant, this is particularly true of reds and browns. If you don't notice or care that's fine, a lot of people don't, but that doesn't mean it isn't a valid issue. 5500k is nice for my laundry room and garage but for a cozy living space it sounds horrid, to each their own.

One of my pet peeves which I may occasionally be guilty of myself is this smug attitude of "it works fine for me so therefore any issues others have are just nonsense" I heard the same arguments regarding CFLs, and then once LED bulbs matured people finally admitted that CFLs were not that great. They saved energy yes, but the light they offered was inferior. it "I'm perfectly happy with this so your concerns are bs" attitude is quite frankly obnoxious.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Biden admin moving forward with light bulb bans in coming weeks
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2023, 08:46:42 pm »
I suppose the question is: there may be advantages of incandescent for some, but are they really worth the extra running cost?

Is the law really necessary? If only a tiny minority of people use incandescent, then it's not going to make much difference in the grand scheme of things.

An alternative to banning, would simply tax them so they cost the same as LED.
 


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