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| Biden invokes Defense Production Act for printed circuit board production |
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| asmi:
--- Quote from: james_s on March 31, 2023, 08:35:01 pm ---There used to be a PCB fab less than 2 miles from my house, it outsourced all that work to China around 15 years ago though, the business is a shell of its former self, the building is mostly empty with just a couple of guys working in the front office. --- End quote --- That's another problem - all the money is made in sales/distribution, not in manufacturing. The latter tend to operate on extremely low margins. Those couple of guys likely add more to the cost to PCB than what PCB were actually manufactured for in the first place. Even looking at my own experience, I make the most money in custom R&D, production typically has a low margin. The only time I make some decent money on production is that when production run is so small and devices used are so expensive, that I can charge extra for manual assembly and actually get away with it. |
| SiliconWizard:
This raises an interesting general question though. Does the US really use chinese fabs for their defense gear? What exactly does "defense" encompass though, it's a pretty wide term? In most european countries, anything military/aerospace/safety or security-critical stuff usually uses "high-quality" fabs, either on their own ground or with what is considered the industry-standard of quality in Europe, which is basically Germany or Switzerland. While not that many, we DO have a number of very high-profile PCB manufacturers in Europe. And they sure have business. There are certainly a few in the US as well. Of course, that's expensive. But cost is not really supposed to be a parameter for these applications in general. So I'd be surprised that this would even be a question in the US. I'm curious. I personally wouldn't even have the idea of having any military equipment made even just partially in China. I'm not talking about your consumer mobile phone or a gadget. Military equipement. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 02, 2023, 09:15:05 pm ---In most european countries, anything military/aerospace/safety or security-critical stuff usually uses "high-quality" fabs, either on their own ground or with what is considered the industry-standard of quality in Europe, which is basically Germany or Switzerland. While not that many, we DO have a number of very high-profile PCB manufacturers in Europe. And they sure have business. --- End quote --- I think you are confusing high quality with expensive. My military designs were always produced in expensive PCB fabs, but the quality was highly variable. A number of times I have had iffy quality samples made in Europe, and people say "Ah, don't worry. The production boards will be made in Asia". |
| floobydust:
I think it's the GHz RF radar designs, striplines that are the IP to keep in house. It might not be about PC boards so much as calling for more "advanced packaging". That is some kind of multidevice mounted on a single... die? or maybe it's COB. The PCB Act was amended 2023-03-31 and really has no details. Over threshold of $50M requires Congress to sign off so this explains the token amount. There is also some strange use of the Act: May 18, 2022 "Biden invokes the Defense Production Act for the baby formula shortage" June 6, 2022 "Biden will authorize the use of the Defense Production Act to accelerate manufacturing of solar panels in the United States" They are no substitute for a national strategy with oversight. Without Taiwan there will be no US military electronics, the ability to make all the components at home is long lost I would say. |
| SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: coppice on April 02, 2023, 09:35:09 pm --- --- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 02, 2023, 09:15:05 pm ---In most european countries, anything military/aerospace/safety or security-critical stuff usually uses "high-quality" fabs, either on their own ground or with what is considered the industry-standard of quality in Europe, which is basically Germany or Switzerland. While not that many, we DO have a number of very high-profile PCB manufacturers in Europe. And they sure have business. --- End quote --- I think you are confusing high quality with expensive. --- End quote --- No, you are. A small logic problem as it seems. High-quality fabs do exist, they consistently deliver great quality and I can name a few (although I'm not endorsed so I don't see the point of free advertisement) with which I had absolutely zero issue. And they are definitely expensive. That doesn't mean that all expensive fabs deliver high quality (ah, logic.). Sorry to hear about your bad experience but certainly the fabs you mention do not qualify for some reason. Don't hesitate to mention names (that wouldn't be free advertisement), that certainly could help a few avoid the shaky ones. Also, do not necessarily assume that all issues were coming from the manufacturer. Sometimes even the greatest fabs can't deliver reliable results with bad designs. (But in that case, the good ones will definitely warn you.) |
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