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Big Clive and Copper-Clad Wire

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soldar:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on October 21, 2023, 12:06:16 pm ---The seller has the opportunity to inspect the goods and should know the law in the country they're exporting to.
--- End quote ---
That is not how the real world works. If you are buying in China you are doing the transaction under Chinese laws and legal system. The seller is only bound by those and nothing else.

And the same with the other way around. A seller in Europe has no obligation to know the law of the country he is exporting to. Someone buys from him and it is the buyer's responsibility to comply with the laws of the country he is taking it to.

Imagine a European seller who ships a movie, work of literature, wine or food, etc to a country where the item is prohibited. Suppose a court in Booniestan declares the European seller to have broken their laws and imposes a fine. No European country would submit to that and with good reason. It would make trade impossible. And I cannot help but detect a a tone of ethno-superiority in those who say other countries should submit to our rules, presumably because our rules are better, when we would never consider submitting to their rules.

The seller is required to comply with the laws of his own jurisdiction and the importer from another country is required to comply with the laws and regulations of their own jurisdiction. That is the way it is and that is the way it should be. Anything else is just unworkable.

And, from a legal standpoint it does not matter if I bring something with me or if I have it shipped to me. One way or another I am the one who caused the forbidden stuff to move into the forbidden jurisdiction.

A French cheese merchant, a Spanish wine merchant, A Belgian beer seller, etc. only need to comply with the laws of their jurisdiction and they need not know nor care that their product is not legal in some other place.

Buyer buys a product abroad and and when the product gets to customs it is confiscated and destroyed before it enters the country. It is all on the buyer and nothing on the seller.

If there is misrepresentation in the sale then the seller's jurisdiction has jurisdiction unless otherwise agreed. But that is a different matter.

switchabl:

--- Quote from: soldar on October 21, 2023, 01:42:12 pm ---And, from a legal standpoint it does not matter if I bring something with me or if I have it shipped to me.

--- End quote ---

I'm sorry, but this is simply wrong. In fact the Blue Guide I linked above points this out explicitly:

--- Quote ---Placing on the market is considered not to take place where a product is:
[...]
— bought by a consumer in a third country while physically present in that country (50) and brought by the consumer into the EU for the personal use of that person

--- End quote ---

On the other hand:

--- Quote ---— Some products outside the EU can be bought directly by end-users in the EU online or through other means of distance sales. Although these products are deemed to be made available in the Union prior to any transaction for the purposes of checks by market surveillance authorities pursuant to Regulation (EU) 2019/1020, they are placed on the market at the moment an order by an end user has been placed and confirmed for a specific product already manufactured and
subject of the transaction, and ready to be shipped.

--- End quote ---

If you sell directly to consumers in a third country, it is not at all uncommon for those countries to expect you to follow their regulations. They may even require you to collect VAT for them. Now, if you don't have any representative or assets there, you might choose not to do that and they may never be able to fully enforce that. But they can have your products confiscated by customs and have your listings removed from e-commerce platforms. And if things go pear-shaped, you might want to choose your future holiday locations around extradition treaties.

And the real problem is not people deliberately buying from shady third-country sellers. The problem is those sellers offering their dangerous products on legitimate marketplaces next to legitimate products, or through their own, seemingly legitimate, localised web shops. It is often not clear at first (or even second) sight where those products come from. If they ship through a local fulfilment service, you may never notice. And even if you can eventually spot the difference, can your elderly relatives?

AVGresponding:
I'd argue that the larger part of the problem is that the majority of the people buying this crap have zero knowledge of electrical standards, safety etc, and just operate on the premise "cheaper is better", and assume that anything sold via a "reputable" platform like eBay or Amazon must be safe. Unless you educate these people, any other action you take will be doomed to failure.

MLi:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on October 21, 2023, 12:06:16 pm ---If you're going to make that argument then why not just abolish all health and safety laws? It's a straw man. The seller should take the lion's share of the responsibility.

--- End quote ---
You're acting like that isn't the default opinion on this forum.  :-DD

AndyBeez:

--- Quote from: AVGresponding on October 21, 2023, 04:00:34 pm ---I'd argue that the larger part of the problem is that the majority of the people buying this crap have zero knowledge of electrical standards, safety etc, and just operate on the premise "cheaper is better", and assume that anything sold via a "reputable" platform like eBay or Amazon must be safe. Unless you educate these people, any other action you take will be doomed to failure.

--- End quote ---
Agreed 100%

Sadly the majority of people includes project managers, product/brand directors, purchasing executives, senior executives and the wunder kinders in accounts. Now go design stuff.

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