Author Topic: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter  (Read 8196 times)

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Offline Sionyn

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Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« on: June 17, 2013, 11:32:01 pm »
photon shows those silly voltage detector screwdrivers
the type contains a neon lamp takes very little current to light,  uses the user's body capacitance to earth ground to complete the circuit.

eecs guy
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 11:36:54 pm »
Yeah, saw this.

How about that other yellow/red screwdriver huh?

Sure took some stick before it failed.

 

Online IanB

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 11:37:37 pm »
photon shows those silly voltage detector screwdrivers
the type contains a neon lamp takes very little current to light,  uses the user's body capacitance to earth ground to complete the circuit

So? I knew that in 1975 when I first played with one. Simple, straightforward, no moving parts. What's the big deal?
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Offline Psi

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 12:01:12 am »
The big deal is that higher voltages will pass straight through into you.

They're design is a terrible idea.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 12:10:59 am »
Do you really want to trust your safety to that cheap little resistor and your assumption that it's free of conductive debris? My god, they don't even bother to pot the thing so dust or moisture can't short across the resistor...
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 03:13:59 am »
The big deal is that higher voltages will pass straight through into you.

They're design is a terrible idea.

The screwdriver in the video was typical dangerous cheap Chinese shit. Standard 1/4W resistor barely rated at 250v for normal operation never mind where failure risks life. Not sure if I have one kicking around any more but I remember the resistor being much more substantial, probably 3/4" long with end caps and looking more like a small ceramic fuse.

As for higher voltage the clueless shouldn't be working with mains voltage never mind higher and there are not that many higher voltage sources the clueless have access to anyway.

It comes with a clip so you can carry in the a shirt pocket like a pen. It is a testing screwdriver meant to check the presence of mains so you can avoid working on it. I wouldn't have qualms about using a decent one to avoid the risk of finding out the hard way.
 

Offline cthree

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 04:20:00 am »
That guy is twisted. Is he doing that shit in his house? Wow.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 04:32:18 am »
The other screwdriver only failed due to corona discharge in the plastic at the sharp edge of the end of the shaft. Surviving nearly 100x overload without failure is retty impressive for that, all discharge before that was around the plastic from other exposed metal.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 10:23:15 am »
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 03:12:10 pm »
The big deal is that higher voltages will pass straight through into you.

They're design is a terrible idea.

The screwdriver in the video was typical dangerous cheap Chinese shit. Standard 1/4W resistor barely rated at 250v for normal operation never mind where failure risks life. Not sure if I have one kicking around any more but I remember the resistor being much more substantial, probably 3/4" long with end caps and looking more like a small ceramic fuse.

As for higher voltage the clueless shouldn't be working with mains voltage never mind higher and there are not that many higher voltage sources the clueless have access to anyway.

It comes with a clip so you can carry in the a shirt pocket like a pen. It is a testing screwdriver meant to check the presence of mains so you can avoid working on it. I wouldn't have qualms about using a decent one to avoid the risk of finding out the hard way.

Yeah,back in the day,we used to sell well made ones at my first job-----I never liked them much,myself,but they were properly designed,with correct high voltage construction of the resistor,etc.

Ours were made in Germany,& had the maximum voltage rating clearly written on them.(380V)

They are meant to be used by people with some idea of what they are doing---not morons!
 

Offline madires

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 03:23:00 pm »
Yeah,back in the day,we used to sell well made ones at my first job-----I never liked them much,myself,but they were properly designed,with correct high voltage construction of the resistor,etc.

Ours were made in Germany,& had the maximum voltage rating clearly written on them.(380V)

They are meant to be used by people with some idea of what they are doing---not morons!

The proper tool to check mains voltages is a DUSPOL (http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments/testequipment/duspol-facts.html). Fluke got a similar tool.
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 03:52:38 pm »
The proper tool to check mains voltages is a DUSPOL (http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments/testequipment/duspol-facts.html). Fluke got a similar tool.

If I wanted something that expensive that won't fit in a shirt pocket I would use a multimeter.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2013, 04:29:56 pm »
fine! now lets buy a car that wont kill if hit at 300mph. when few KV reach a household, a cheap pen tester is out of the equation. and only a dumb that is meant to be recycled will bring this cheapo into a HV installation site.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline madires

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2013, 04:56:29 pm »
The proper tool to check mains voltages is a DUSPOL (http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments/testequipment/duspol-facts.html). Fluke got a similar tool.

If I wanted something that expensive that won't fit in a shirt pocket I would use a multimeter.

Would that DMM be able to add a load to trip the RCD or to detect phantom voltages? Would it also give you a clue about the voltage without looking at the display? What about detecting line/phase/hot? How do you handle (in a safe way) holding two probes and a DMM at the same time while reading the display? A DMM isn't the best tool for mains wiring.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2013, 05:17:14 pm »
fine! now lets buy a car that wont kill if hit at 300mph. when few KV reach a household, a cheap pen tester is out of the equation. and only a dumb that is meant to be recycled will bring this cheapo into a HV installation site.

I think he's not far off too much. For 240V AC the peak voltage is 340V. Now add a spike from a nearby inductive load. I wouldn't be happy using a cheap voltage detector screwdriver. The problem is that I'm part of the loop to make it work :-( And if I wear shoes with thick rubber soles the neon glows so dimly I can't tell if there's a voltage or not. I can't distinguish a voltage from a phantom voltage either. It's simply the wrong tool, but it's so cheap that a lot of people got one it the toolbox.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2013, 05:50:03 pm »
I think he's not far off too much.
he is far off too far. the spike you are talking about is nowhere near at cutting Kielbasa into half. let me correct myself... when few KV at nonnegligible amount of energy reach into a household, a cheap pen tester is out of the equation. tv, refrigerator, human, pc et al will be is.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2013, 06:12:06 pm »
given the price, form factor and safety of non-contact voltage detector pens, i see no reason why this argument exists.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2013, 06:19:59 pm »
Not sure if the same guy, but I remember seeing some youtube videos years ago where a guy was connecting TVs to Tesla coils.  Either way, his neighbors must love him.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2013, 06:22:38 pm »
the spike you are talking about is nowhere near at cutting Kielbasa into half.

A potentially (heh) dangerous current also does not have to be anywhere near cutting a kielbasa in half. It only takes a handful of mA on a bad day, even if it is unlikely. Yes, there are risks inherent in everything, but when one of them can be avoided by taking minimal effort (a VoltAlert wand is $25 FFS....) I am going to avoid it.
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duskglow

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2013, 06:55:52 pm »
I've been watching a few of his videos over the past few days.  His neighbors seem to join in the fun - he had a ten foot tall jacob's ladder going in his garden.  His wife also has her own channel which is pretty hilarious in its own right, she has a pretty good sense of humor about it.

He seems to have a problem with people constantly flagging his videos.  I can kinda see why - doing what he does is pretty dangerous.  Especially when he gets out that huge capacitor and starts blowing up fruit...
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2013, 07:57:58 pm »
He also has a small "behind the scenes" channel which makes it pretty obvious that the "nutter" is just a character he puts on for show. I was much less worried about his ability to do all that without killing anyone after seeing it...  :) He is definitely a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to criticism, though.  :-DD
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Telequipment

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2013, 08:06:49 pm »
 I think the man in the video is the sort to have a fully working electric chair, he seems to get pleasure in putting extra large amount of voltage into things.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2013, 08:08:06 pm »
Don't give him any ideas...
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duskglow

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2013, 08:16:57 pm »
Do you have a link to that channel?  I'd be interested in seeing it and a few searches aren't turning anything up.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2013, 08:30:42 pm »
I think the man in the video is the sort to have a fully working electric chair.
worst, that guy has a "thing", when you get close enough to it, you instantly vaporize into black ashes, be careful.

Don't give him any ideas...
too late my friend. the title "The Not So Nutter" is a blatant cover up.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2013, 09:43:44 pm »
Do you have a link to that channel?

IAintAvinit. A few of the videos make him seem like a normal, knowledgeable (if not too eloquent) guy just putting on a show. A few others make him seem like a completely deranged lunatic. And the rest are just kind of boring.
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Offline gxti

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2013, 09:50:03 pm »
he is far off too far. the spike you are talking about is nowhere near at cutting Kielbasa into half. let me correct myself... when few KV at nonnegligible amount of energy reach into a household, a cheap pen tester is out of the equation. tv, refrigerator, human, pc et al will be is.

The kV are for show, but even at nominal voltage that thing is unsafe. It's one fault away from electrocuting the operator.
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 04:02:06 am »
Yeah,back in the day,we used to sell well made ones at my first job-----I never liked them much,myself,but they were properly designed,with correct high voltage construction of the resistor,etc.

Ours were made in Germany,& had the maximum voltage rating clearly written on them.(380V)

They are meant to be used by people with some idea of what they are doing---not morons!

The proper tool to check mains voltages is a DUSPOL (http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments/testequipment/duspol-facts.html). Fluke got a similar tool.

When we sold them,circa 1960,such high tech stuff was a distant dream.

Electricians used them mainly as a quick check that Active & Neutral were present,& on the right pins in sockets,(although it was only a "suggested" orientation in Western Australia till the '70s).

For serious work,they used an analog multimeter.

Why I said I didn't much like them,is the possibility of the neon failing due to dropping the tool,where the next test would show a false "safe".

It shouldn't happen with Electricians ,as they are taught to test their tester each time in a known active point (for multimeters,too!),but they can get a bit lax with this-----& the rest of us will probably just assume our test equipment is OK.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2013, 01:16:06 pm »
Why I said I didn't much like them,is the possibility of the neon failing due to dropping the tool,where the next test would show a false "safe".

Good point! And Mr. DIY would keep the broken one because it's still usable as screwdriver. After a while he'll have some broken ones and a single working one in his toolbox. Nominated for the Darvin Award :-)

Quote
It shouldn't happen with Electricians ,as they are taught to test their tester each time in a known active point (for multimeters,too!),but they can get a bit lax with this-----& the rest of us will probably just assume our test equipment is OK.

Yeah, it worked for the last 10 years. Why should it fail right now? :-)
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2013, 01:20:10 pm »
Yep, the majority of DIY types tend to assume that if something hasn't presently killed anyone, it's not going to. I tried for a month to convince my father to fix his wiring, after discovering that the outlets he installed in the garage weren't grounded properly. But since he'd been using it for months already without issue, he didn't do anything. (I finally just did it myself...)

Should have just waited for him to plug in something with mains filter capacitors and a "grounded" chassis and waited for him to discover the capacitors...  >:D
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Offline madires

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Re: Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2013, 01:41:32 pm »
Yep, the majority of DIY types tend to assume that if something hasn't presently killed anyone, it's not going to. I tried for a month to convince my father to fix his wiring, after discovering that the outlets he installed in the garage weren't grounded properly. But since he'd been using it for months already without issue, he didn't do anything. (I finally just did it myself...)

Hmm, are you sure that we don't got the same father?  ;D Most times my father asks if he could do something in such and such a way now. But it took some time.

Quote
Should have just waited for him to plug in something with mains filter capacitors and a "grounded" chassis and waited for him to discover the capacitors...  >:D

Recommended for educational purposes :-)
 


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