Author Topic: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!  (Read 125377 times)

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Online coppice

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #400 on: December 09, 2024, 02:20:06 pm »
I was wondering the same thing myself.. what if it turns out that the root cause of the failures were traceable to non DEI hires ?? :-)
That presupposes you or someone knows how to identify DEI from non-DEI hires.  How would you do it?
That's why it is so damaging for anyone competent. When a highly competent person realises there is no way they could have failed to get the job, regardless of their competence, it must be so disheartening. Nobody will ever look at them in their role without suspicion.
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #401 on: December 09, 2024, 02:21:09 pm »
I wonder if the new administration is going to give Boeing a get out of jail free card.  :o

O, honey, no, it's not gonna be free.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #402 on: December 09, 2024, 02:29:15 pm »
I was wondering the same thing myself.. what if it turns out that the root cause of the failures were traceable to non DEI hires ?? :-)

That presupposes you or someone knows how to identify DEI from non-DEI hires.  How would you do it?

An rather crude way would be rough timelines and statistics I suppose...
say, for arguments sake, that we agree that the DEI culture started gaining momentum about 10-15 years ago.. lets take 20 years to be conservative... and look at the hires since.. and the impact of their work..
see if any failures can be traced back to them directly or indirectly... statistical analysis about acceptable failure rates and what not... its a rather crude way.. but no.. I do not have a better solution..

However, having said that.. I do admit.. the above could and probably would be classified as discrimination..  :-// and would open another can of worms entirely...
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Offline krish2487

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #403 on: December 09, 2024, 02:30:53 pm »
I was wondering the same thing myself.. what if it turns out that the root cause of the failures were traceable to non DEI hires ?? :-)
That presupposes you or someone knows how to identify DEI from non-DEI hires.  How would you do it?
That's why it is so damaging for anyone competent. When a highly competent person realises there is no way they could have failed to get the job, regardless of their competence, it must be so disheartening. Nobody will ever look at them in their role without suspicion.

Dunning-Krueger says its damaging for anyone incompetent as well... :-D
If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #404 on: December 09, 2024, 04:01:42 pm »
I think like a lot of things, DEI policies come from the right place, but are the wrong solution to the issue.  "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

The principal issue I have with most DEI advocates is that they assume that everyone who is not in a discriminated group (basically, if you are white, or at least in the majority in your country) is implicitly involved in some kind of suppression of minorities/women.  And sometimes this suppression is subconscious, according to the doctrine (so called "unconscious bias" and "microaggressions").

I have never actively attempted to discriminate against anyone on the basis of race, sex, etc. and I see no reason why I would do so because it simply is not something I would consider moral or reasonable.  I believe that the hypothesis of unconscious bias is based on an assumption that people are racist/sexist at heart (a kind of "original sin") and this must be "corrected by re-education".  This is a very toxic belief in my opinion, and it belies the fact that many do not have these biases, many are allied in favour of anti-racism, but are still subjected to policies that are themselves inherently racist.  There is also this assumption that racism is entirely one directional -- these theories state that a black person cannot be racist to a white person, because the white person has a power structure that the black person does not have.  Well, I have had bosses of many ethnic backgrounds from middle eastern to black to white, and it would be very easy for a power structure there to exist where racism could come into play.  But, I don't seek to blame an entire racial group because the possibility of racism exists, I would only blame that individual person.  Thankfully I've never had to do so.

When it comes to improving equity (not equality) in the workforce I am all for it.  Everyone should be given the same skills and tools to succeed.  I am not opposed to making some internships more open to historically discriminated groups, but I would want this to be done on the basis of class, not race.  In the UK for instance, the number of young white men entering university is at a historic low.  Yet you rarely hear much about this group being discriminated against in education, the talk is always of ethnic minorities.  If a group is underrepresented according to the average in society it could be a sign of discrimination, but it could also be natural variation.  It seems that DEI advocates are upset that there are many fewer female software engineers than male SWEs, but they are much less concerned about there being many more male garbage truck operators, even though both variations are readily explained by self-selection.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #405 on: December 09, 2024, 04:45:35 pm »
When it comes to improving equity (not equality) in the workforce I am all for it.
Equity is a disgusting thing to aim for. Equal outcomes regardless of ability or effort is the road to hell.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #406 on: December 09, 2024, 05:19:05 pm »
When it comes to improving equity (not equality) in the workforce I am all for it.
Equity is a disgusting thing to aim for. Equal outcomes regardless of ability or effort is the road to hell.

Huh?

Equity means everyone is provided with what they need to succeed.

It doesn't mean equal outcomes at all, but it does mean equal opportunities, which I think is totally reasonable.
 
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Online coppice

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #407 on: December 09, 2024, 05:20:50 pm »
When it comes to improving equity (not equality) in the workforce I am all for it.
Equity is a disgusting thing to aim for. Equal outcomes regardless of ability or effort is the road to hell.

Huh?

Equity means everyone is provided with what they need to succeed.

It doesn't mean equal outcomes at all, but it does mean equal opportunities, which I think is totally reasonable.
The DEI people define equity as equal outcomes, and equality as equal opportunity.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #408 on: December 09, 2024, 05:23:50 pm »
The DEI people define equity as equal outcomes, and equality as equal opportunity.

I think we might be using different definitions then.  I am referring to the belief that equal opportunities should be available to all.  Not that outcomes should be equal.
 
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Online coppice

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #409 on: December 09, 2024, 05:31:53 pm »
The DEI people define equity as equal outcomes, and equality as equal opportunity.

I think we might be using different definitions then.  I am referring to the belief that equal opportunities should be available to all.  Not that outcomes should be equal.
Then you had better be careful in your interactions with DEI people. I have never seen one that does not explicitly call for equity, rather than equality, or who defines equity as anything other than equal outcomes. They get vague about what equal outcomes actually means, as the more you look at that as a goal the sillier it gets. So they generally retreat from saying this must be at the individual level, to saying it must happen at some group level. They most definitely are NOT looking for equal opportunity. They are very clear about that.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #410 on: December 09, 2024, 05:34:41 pm »
WTF this even means. If a company opened and posted an internal job for a VP level position - is this an equal opportunity to everyone?
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #411 on: December 09, 2024, 08:00:25 pm »
When you define equity as giving everyone the means to succeed you are on a dangerous path.  For the DEI zealots an unequal outcome is evidence that something was not provided.

I think that we need to think of things like public education and healthcare from the point of view of societal benefit, not individual benefit.  Because of the huge range of individual needs looking from a societal point of view may well mean that the individual needs of some people are not met.
 

Online Analog Kid

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #412 on: December 09, 2024, 09:46:06 pm »
The unwelcome fact here is that, contrary to a widely-held and popularized belief, all people are not "created equal". We have yet to come to grips with this.

What should be a reasonable goal here would be to give everyone an equal opportunity to perform up to whatever level they're capable of, without discrimination based on [race, gender, etc., etc.]. I think most people would agree with that.

But guaranteeing equal outcomes for everyone? That's entirely unrealistic. Some people are geniuses, some are retards, and there's a whole continuum in between.

Couple things: one, whether or not you believe in socialism (I do, kinda-sorta), their slogan is a good one:
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need
Now if only that were actually put into practice somewhere, some time ...

The other thing is my take on racism:
I take racism personally. Selfishly, actually. Not that I feel oppressed or discriminated against (I'm a white male).
But because racism robs me of the talents and hard work of so many people.
Without racism, the world would be much fuller of able, competent people working and contributing to the overall good of humanity.
Think of the inventions, the works of art, the advances in any field that depend on the work and engagement of qualified people.
Then think of the huge pool of people that is kept from contributing because of racism, and solely because of it; not because of any character flaws or lack of talent, intelligence or willingness to work.
That's why I have this selfish, opportunistic take on racism. I think if more people did that we might see more real action in addressing and eliminating that particular evil, instead of the window dressing (DEI, identity politics) that we have now that fixes NOTHING.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 09:51:09 pm by Analog Kid »
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #413 on: December 09, 2024, 09:58:01 pm »
Good thing for boeing executives is while everyone is wasting time talking about DEI BS, the core issues are still not being addressed and everyone can keep getting their paychecks and bonuses. Yay! :popcorn:
 
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Offline vad

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #414 on: December 10, 2024, 03:01:23 am »
Couple things: one, whether or not you believe in socialism (I do, kinda-sorta), their slogan is a good one:
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need
You are wrong. This is a communist slogan. The truth is, those who disagreed with it were either shot, starved to death or sent in summer clothes to die in the freezing steppes. Those who obeyed were used as cannon fodder, dying in battles against another socialist — national socialist — state. The needs of the survivors were reduced to the bare minimum.

PS. The socialist slogan was: “From each according to their ability, to each according to their work”. Believe me, they brainwashed us with this shit in school and university.

 

Offline vad

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #415 on: December 10, 2024, 03:04:52 am »
Back on topic: Here’s a good explanation of Boeing’s failure from a pilot’s perspective:

https://youtu.be/fupWqDazT4M?si=GoUwMNMhBR0wtrN-
 

Offline jfiresto

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #416 on: December 10, 2024, 11:13:49 am »
I didn't find the video very satisfactory. It briefly mentions several causes but does not explain how the failure came about or why such a failure became possible.
-John
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #417 on: December 10, 2024, 12:05:36 pm »
Designed by clowns supervised by a monkey

How Boeing’s Mistakes Led to the 737 MAX Crashes!


All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
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Offline vad

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #418 on: December 10, 2024, 12:15:47 pm »
I didn't find the video very satisfactory. It briefly mentions several causes but does not explain how the failure came about or why such a failure became possible.
True. The author did not mention DEI and pointed to the board of directors instead. I quickly checked the current board members, and none seem to come from a DEI background. What a disappointment.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #419 on: December 10, 2024, 09:31:33 pm »
I didn't find the video very satisfactory. It briefly mentions several causes but does not explain how the failure came about or why such a failure became possible.
True. The author did not mention DEI and pointed to the board of directors instead.

How dare he! :-DD
 

Offline Simmed

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #420 on: December 29, 2024, 04:11:02 am »
terrible news
737-800 landing gear fail to deploy
* update : looks like there was a bird strike before the landing

https://aviationsourcenews.com/jeju-air-boeing-737-crashes-in-muan-south-korea/



*update : 2 survived the crash
« Last Edit: December 29, 2024, 04:14:56 pm by Simmed »
V=I.R  Q=h.A.(dT) q=(dT).p  Q=C.V  F=m.a  F=q.v.B.(sinθ)
 

Online Analog Kid

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #421 on: December 29, 2024, 04:44:28 am »
Maybe an interesting video if you understand Korean.
Otherwise a stupid video that repeats the same clip more than a dozen times.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #422 on: December 29, 2024, 07:30:54 am »
I really wonder if the air field is built wrong, why would there be a wall there? It seems like its pretty feasible to just leave open dirt for a long way down the field...

it almost looks like if you can let it slide for a long while it would slow down and be OK


the runway should be long enough that if it lands without gear the plane can slide to a stop without hitting anything

a really good runway would have its landing equipment hide underground in a bad situation too, to clear the area, on a elevator with a closing door. I wonder if anyone ever did that
« Last Edit: December 29, 2024, 07:35:45 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online Analog Kid

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #423 on: December 29, 2024, 07:46:37 am »
I really wonder if the air field is built wrong, why would there be a wall there?

That very question came up in one of the news videos I saw on YouTube (I think one from Sky News).
 

Offline MT

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Re: Boeing 737 Max again, it would be nice if the windows [door plugs] stayed in!
« Reply #424 on: December 29, 2024, 04:09:28 pm »
To high landing speed.
 


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