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| BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers |
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| Marco:
--- Quote from: CJay on December 12, 2020, 05:26:29 pm ---He's just playing to the cheap seats so when it all falls apart tomorrow he can come back home and claim he tried to play it tough and that it was really all his idea to not get a deal but the big bad EU bullied him --- End quote --- Though they do it more gracefully, the EU is no different. They were never going to allow a negotiated true Brexit, they were always planning to impose their power through the back door of the ECJ and level playing field provision. It was all just an useless dishonest dance, which could have worked on May but was a lost cause with Johnson. In the end its just some jockying for PR between a bunch of graceful liars and a blustering populist. |
| fcb:
--- Quote from: S. Petrukhin on December 12, 2020, 05:36:49 pm ---Guys from England, but who chose Johnson? You didn't participate in this? --- End quote --- Democracy. |
| Zero999:
--- Quote from: S. Petrukhin on December 12, 2020, 03:45:29 pm ---Why do these crazy governments appear everywhere, constantly fighting and pitting people against each other? That they don't live in peace? All these borders, possessions, the army - these are the wild times of the past. After all, it is good to be in a single Union without borders, without customs, with the same money. Probably, European officials have tortured everyone with their mediocrity and uselessness - they are paid money but they do nothing but stupid shows about enemies all around. I know this very well from the structure of the USSR. Now we have a union of several countries: Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan = Eurasian Economic Community. We live in one country in past, now we are all independent countries, each has its own currency and its own power, but we have no borders, we share the same laws to a large extent. This is very convenient: I can safely go to Minsk and even live there without fear of ignorance of the law, I can safely sell products in any country as well as at home. There is some tiny shared power, but it is invisible, does not interfere with anyone, does not command anyone, only coordinates various interactions. Yes, and all under the protection of the Russian army. Imagine all the countries in such a Union. --- End quote --- The EU is quite different from the USSR, which was an empire, gained through conquest, much like the British Empire. The member states of the EU all agreed to join, of their own free will. They weren't forced join, as was the case with the British Empire, or Russian Empire, which went on the be the USSR. Many countries sharing the the same rules and currency brings a range of benefits, regarding trade and freedom, but it also has downsides too. Getting the EU to change a certain rule is challenging, because it has to be agreed between all member states, which can result in unnecessary delays. A classic example is the COVID-19 vaccine, which was swiftly approved by the UK, but will take awhile for the EU to agree on it. The same rules/currency are only any good when all states have similar levels of wealth and rule of law. The UK is more wealthy and has better rule of law, than many Eastern European EU states, so faces a lot of immigration from there and follows the EU laws more strictly. Immigration is not always a bad thing, but it's one of the reasons why many voted to leave. In my opinion, the EU expanded too quickly. They allowed poorer, Eastern European countries to join too quickly. The reason for this is because they wanted to lessen Russia's influence, over Eastern Europe, which has caused trouble in some places, such as Ukraine. I largely agree that unions of states and trade agreements are good things, but for practical reasons, only strong unions should exist between countries with similar enough levels of prosperity, rule of law and culture. States with larger gaps in wealth and rule of law can have trade agreements, but they should be weaker. --- Quote from: S. Petrukhin on December 12, 2020, 05:36:49 pm ---I read about brexit here and I am more and more convinced that the EU was needed first of all so that the Europeans would not fight again. :) Guys from England, but who chose Johnson? You didn't participate in this? --- End quote --- Yes, the original intention for having the EU was to put an end to war. The problem is the war has faded from living memory and the EU has engaged in feature creep. I did not vote for Brexit. I backed remain. One of the problems is the vote was won by a small margin. Taking into account for the fact not everyone voted, most of the people in the UK didn't vote to leave. There should have been a clause in the referendum stating that, Brexit would only occur if the majority of those who were eligible, voted to leave. Unfortunately, given that there was no such clause, we must leave the EU and not just in name only, as some politicians want. It's the only way to stop the government from losing any more trust, than it already has. |
| S. Petrukhin:
I regret that the EU has accumulated problems and they are so acute. This is bad for us, and it is good for us to have a strong, stable, calm Europe. And from a pragmatic point of view, we need European consumption of goods, we need European goods. And the destiny of people who will be bad is also sad... |
| CJay:
--- Quote from: Marco on December 12, 2020, 05:40:28 pm --- --- Quote from: CJay on December 12, 2020, 05:26:29 pm ---He's just playing to the cheap seats so when it all falls apart tomorrow he can come back home and claim he tried to play it tough and that it was really all his idea to not get a deal but the big bad EU bullied him --- End quote --- Though they do it more gracefully, the EU is no different. They were never going to allow a negotiated true Brexit, they were always planning to impose their power through the back door of the ECJ and level playing field provision. It was all just an useless dishonest dance, which could have worked on May but was a lost cause with Johnson. In the end its just some jockying for PR between a bunch of graceful liars and a blustering populist. --- End quote --- TBH, from my seat in the UK it looks to me like the EU have had the upper hand all along, their negotiating position hasn't really changed but our idiot government has shifted and even gone back on things it's promised so often it's difficult to keep up. The only real constant is the largely symbolic, minority industry of fishing which is likely to be crippled by Brexit because a huge portion of the business relies on being able to trade freely with the EU. Blustering populist is a generous description of Johnson, mine is likely to get me a forum ban. |
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