Author Topic: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers  (Read 40001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2020, 07:03:14 pm »
There is a perfectly good abstain button. All you have to do is tick all of them.

As for the cause and mandate it doesn’t matter if the information provided to the population was lies which it was. In fact I worked for one of the companies employed to see how effective the lies were and which ones to keep lying about. This is something I regret.
 
The following users thanked this post: SilverSolder

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2020, 07:13:02 pm »
The margin was still small, that's fact, a large turnout just means more people voted, it doesn't give more or less of a mandate.
This is nonsense. A big margin on a low turnout has more to do with how much one side motivated its partisans to be bothered than what the public thinks. A high turnout means the result is at least based on what a great many people think, even if the margin of victory is small. Some local elections have such a low turnout the winner has more to do with which candidate could motivate their family and friends to be bothered, than any grand notion of the will of the people.
How does a large turnout increase the percentage margin?

Show me the maths and include your workings.
The issue I responded to was "more or less of a mandate", not margins. Getting 99% of the votes of a handful of people does NOT give you a mandate. A low turnout usually shows all the parties are treated with disdain, and the public thinks none of them are worth voting for. I think there is great merit in compulsory voting with an abstain box. I would actually turn out for every election with enthusiasm to tick an abstain box.

You're confusing mandate with approval.

A mandate is a binary thing, one of two discrete values, given or denied, politically undesirable and dangerous to ignore but still, only binary.

The number of people who voted doesn't give it more or less authority, it just proves people were motivated and it was still a small margin.
 

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7043
  • Country: nl
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2020, 07:18:20 pm »
their negotiating position hasn't really changed

They've always been coy about what they envisioned the enforcement strategy for level playing field to be.
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20357
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2020, 07:22:41 pm »
Many countries sharing the the same rules and currency brings a range of benefits, regarding trade and freedom, but it also has downsides too. Getting the EU to change a certain rule is challenging, because it has to be agreed between all member states, which can result in unnecessary delays. A classic example is the COVID-19 vaccine, which was swiftly approved by the UK, but will take awhile for the EU to agree on it.

EU law allows individual member states to give emergency approval for a drug which is precisely how we managed to approve the COVID vaccine as we're still in the transition period and subject to the very EU laws our government have said would prevent us approving the vaccine's use.

It's yet more lies and bluster from our own government.
That's not true at all. If it were, then I'm sure many other EU member states would have approved the vaccine by now.

Yes, the UK has to follow the EU laws, as it's still in the transition period. The reason why the UK has approved the vaccine is because it has an opt-out, in that area of law. It's true this would have been the case, irrespective of Brexit, but does not negate my point that shared laws can often be a hindrance, as well as an advantage. It illustrates quite nicely one of the downsides of states being bound too tightly together.
 

Online themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3264
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2020, 07:26:27 pm »
   winners % of vote   % turnout
1997   43.2                    71.4
2001   40.7                    59.4
2005   35.2                    61.4
2010   36.1                    65.1
2015   36.8                    66.1
2017   42.3                    68.7
2019   43.6                    67.3
brexit   51.9                    72.2
if any body want to do some sums heres the important  bits ,by my sums a larger percentage of the electorate voted yes than they have for any prime minister back as far as 1992 at least


Now lets look on the bright side,if were out of the EU does that mean no more eurovision song contest?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 07:28:21 pm by themadhippy »
 

Offline magic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7453
  • Country: pl
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2020, 07:45:50 pm »
Eurovision predates the EU (and will outlast it too). Empires come and go but some things never change :P
 
The following users thanked this post: Ed.Kloonk, fcb, SilverSolder, bd139

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2020, 07:46:22 pm »
Bugger!  :-DD
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2020, 07:50:50 pm »
Many countries sharing the the same rules and currency brings a range of benefits, regarding trade and freedom, but it also has downsides too. Getting the EU to change a certain rule is challenging, because it has to be agreed between all member states, which can result in unnecessary delays. A classic example is the COVID-19 vaccine, which was swiftly approved by the UK, but will take awhile for the EU to agree on it.

EU law allows individual member states to give emergency approval for a drug which is precisely how we managed to approve the COVID vaccine as we're still in the transition period and subject to the very EU laws our government have said would prevent us approving the vaccine's use.

It's yet more lies and bluster from our own government.
That's not true at all. If it were, then I'm sure many other EU member states would have approved the vaccine by now.

No, it really is true. Look it up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/04/how-vaccine-approval-compares-between-the-uk-europe-and-the-us

https://www.ft.com/content/021720c2-157e-40b4-b2f9-33515032fb19
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 07:56:48 pm by CJay »
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2020, 08:00:22 pm »
Eurovision predates the EU (and will outlast it too). Empires come and go but some things never change :P

Now I'm wondering if the EU states will punish us by making us win

https://fatherted.fandom.com/wiki/My_Lovely_Horse
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10031
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2020, 08:08:59 pm »
Eurovision predates the EU (and will outlast it too). Empires come and go but some things never change :P
Eurovision is completely unrelated to the EU. It must have pretty much shrunk to be nothing more than a bad singing contest now, though. Does any of the actual Eurovision network still exist?
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2020, 08:11:20 pm »
Eurovision predates the EU (and will outlast it too). Empires come and go but some things never change :P
Eurovision is completely unrelated to the EU. It must have pretty much shrunk to be nothing more than a bad singing contest now, though. Does any of the actual Eurovision network still exist?

The EBU still very much exists.
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10031
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2020, 08:14:27 pm »
There is a perfectly good abstain button. All you have to do is tick all of them.
That's just a spoiled ballot. I'm not bothering to create those. I want elections to produce a proper count of people who say "none of the above". I think a high count there would encourage a shift in the political landscape.
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10031
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2020, 08:16:49 pm »
Eurovision predates the EU (and will outlast it too). Empires come and go but some things never change :P
Eurovision is completely unrelated to the EU. It must have pretty much shrunk to be nothing more than a bad singing contest now, though. Does any of the actual Eurovision network still exist?

The EBU still very much exists.
Yes, but that's a standards setting body as much as anything else. If you go to studios in places like the BBC are there still sockets on the wall labelled "Eurovision" where you can connect a monitor and see some program, typically sports, that is being distributed live to various Eurovision members?
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2020, 08:23:28 pm »
Eurovision predates the EU (and will outlast it too). Empires come and go but some things never change :P
Eurovision is completely unrelated to the EU. It must have pretty much shrunk to be nothing more than a bad singing contest now, though. Does any of the actual Eurovision network still exist?

The EBU still very much exists.
Yes, but that's a standards setting body as much as anything else. If you go to studios in places like the BBC are there still sockets on the wall labelled "Eurovision" where you can connect a monitor and see some program, typically sports, that is being distributed live to various Eurovision members?

Pretty much, yeah, EBU feeds exist on the broadcast satellites and are used by our broadcasting bodies, I don';t know if it's as blatant as a socket on a wall marked EBU though.

EBU organises and runs Euroviosion:
https://eurovision.tv/about/organisers
 

Offline SilverSolder

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6126
  • Country: 00
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2020, 08:30:33 pm »
The demographics show that "Older" and "Less Educated" won the day.   Sad for anyone that doesn't fit neatly in either of those categories!



(This is from 2017)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 08:32:25 pm by SilverSolder »
 

Offline fcbTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2135
  • Country: gb
  • Test instrument designer/G1YWC
    • Electron Plus
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2020, 08:30:52 pm »
So has anyone done any planning for 1st Jan 2021?  Stock piled parts, bog roll, camembert?
https://electron.plus Power Analysers, VI Signature Testers, Voltage References, Picoammeters, Curve Tracers.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2020, 08:44:47 pm »
Yes plenty.

Really everyone should have 4 weeks worth of food and stuff in anyway. This just in time society is rather fragile. I know that after being unemployed and hungry a couple of times in my life :)
 

Offline dave j

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2020, 08:58:51 pm »
Bugger!  :-DD
The Eurovision Song Contest gets high viewing figures and is relatively cheap (when you take into consideration how much air time they get out of it). It's going nowhere. Just be glad we live in a multi-channel/multi-platform world where there is plenty of other stuff to watch instead. I remember the 1970s where it was far more prominent than now.
I'm not David L Jones. Apparently I actually do have to point this out.
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20357
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2020, 09:01:33 pm »
Bugger!  :-DD
The Eurovision Song Contest gets high viewing figures and is relatively cheap (when you take into consideration how much air time they get out of it). It's going nowhere. Just be glad we live in a multi-channel/multi-platform world where there is plenty of other stuff to watch instead. I remember the 1970s where it was far more prominent than now.
The 90s were bad enough. There were satellite and cable channels, but we didn't have them back then.

Many countries sharing the the same rules and currency brings a range of benefits, regarding trade and freedom, but it also has downsides too. Getting the EU to change a certain rule is challenging, because it has to be agreed between all member states, which can result in unnecessary delays. A classic example is the COVID-19 vaccine, which was swiftly approved by the UK, but will take awhile for the EU to agree on it.

EU law allows individual member states to give emergency approval for a drug which is precisely how we managed to approve the COVID vaccine as we're still in the transition period and subject to the very EU laws our government have said would prevent us approving the vaccine's use.

It's yet more lies and bluster from our own government.
That's not true at all. If it were, then I'm sure many other EU member states would have approved the vaccine by now.

No, it really is true. Look it up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/04/how-vaccine-approval-compares-between-the-uk-europe-and-the-us

https://www.ft.com/content/021720c2-157e-40b4-b2f9-33515032fb19
Alright, I stand corrected. It just goes to show one can't rely on everything the read on the Internet and watch on YouTube.  :palm:

I still think the UK is doing the right thing. The EU seems to be discouraging member states to follow the UK in granting emergency approval, which I think is wrong. I can understand some countries will be more cautious about approving the vaccine, than others, but let them make up their own minds!
 

Offline SilverSolder

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6126
  • Country: 00
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2020, 09:02:58 pm »
Bugger!  :-DD
The Eurovision Song Contest gets high viewing figures and is relatively cheap (when you take into consideration how much air time they get out of it). It's going nowhere. Just be glad we live in a multi-channel/multi-platform world where there is plenty of other stuff to watch instead. I remember the 1970s where it was far more prominent than now.

We wouldn't have ABBA without it!  :D
 
The following users thanked this post: Ed.Kloonk

Offline dave j

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2020, 09:04:44 pm »
That's just a spoiled ballot. I'm not bothering to create those. I want elections to produce a proper count of people who say "none of the above". I think a high count there would encourage a shift in the political landscape.
This. Lumping protest ballots in with those not filled in properly just allows politicians to dismiss them. An explicit 'non of the above' option would make it explicit and be harder to ignore.
I'm not David L Jones. Apparently I actually do have to point this out.
 

Offline dave j

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2020, 09:09:27 pm »
We wouldn't have ABBA without it!  :D
Whilst I choose to not watch it, I don't object to it as a concept as some people seem to do.
I'm not David L Jones. Apparently I actually do have to point this out.
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2020, 09:12:07 pm »
Alright, I stand corrected. It just goes to show one can't rely on everything the read on the Internet and watch on YouTube.  :palm:
Or coming out of the mouths of politicians, in newspapers etc.

This is part of the problem with Brexit, so many damn lies which are easy to disprove, nobody here is below average intelligence yet I still see people repeating the same, tired old debunked lies about the EU and the UK, they get into the public consciousness and become unassailable myth.

There was a really good website setup to debunk the myths and lies in the UK media, it's archived and difficult to find now but pretty much all the 'EU bad' stories are on there.

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index

*edit* better link here:
https://wayback.archive-it.org/11980/20191016145012/https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/

I still think the UK is doing the right thing. The EU seems to be discouraging member states to follow the UK in granting emergency approval, which I think is wrong. I can understand some countries will be more cautious about approving the vaccine, than others, but let them make up their own minds!
Definitely doing the right thing approving the vaccine, yes.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 09:18:56 pm by CJay »
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20357
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2020, 10:18:52 pm »
Alright, I stand corrected. It just goes to show one can't rely on everything the read on the Internet and watch on YouTube.  :palm:
Or coming out of the mouths of politicians, in newspapers etc.

This is part of the problem with Brexit, so many damn lies which are easy to disprove, nobody here is below average intelligence yet I still see people repeating the same, tired old debunked lies about the EU and the UK, they get into the public consciousness and become unassailable myth.

There was a really good website setup to debunk the myths and lies in the UK media, it's archived and difficult to find now but pretty much all the 'EU bad' stories are on there.

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index

*edit* better link here:
https://wayback.archive-it.org/11980/20191016145012/https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/

I still think the UK is doing the right thing. The EU seems to be discouraging member states to follow the UK in granting emergency approval, which I think is wrong. I can understand some countries will be more cautious about approving the vaccine, than others, but let them make up their own minds!
Definitely doing the right thing approving the vaccine, yes.
I generally don't believe anything politicians say. I got the thing about the vaccine from a COVID-19 video by a medical YouTuber, who generally isn't political. They obviously got it from elsewhere.

That site you've posted is good, but the other bad things such as the tampon tax and the EU commission wasting loads of money relocating are obviously true.
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: BREXIT - what it means for small manufacturers
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2020, 10:34:41 pm »
That site you've posted is good, but the other bad things such as the tampon tax and the EU commission wasting loads of money relocating are obviously true.

I know little to nothing about tampon tax but dig into the 'relocating' costs and work out how it relates to the cost of running other parliaments, it's enlightening.

A little perspective is useful, especially when it comes to money measured in big numbers.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf