Author Topic: Bullshit units of measure  (Read 6702 times)

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Offline tooki

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2022, 05:33:55 am »
Hey, pardon my ignorance since vacuuming is the woman's job and all but what's the difference between paper bags and synthetic ones for a non-dyson?

Other than being twice the price, why should I not just get the paper one?
Synthetic bags supposedly have better filtration performance (both in particle size and in not getting clogged up) and airflow.

My vacuum only takes synthetics so I can’t compare performance over paper, but what I can compare is price, and I can say with confidence that by shopping around (look at compatibility with other brands, which may be cheaper) you can get synthetic bags quite cheaply. (For example, mine is a Siemens, but essentially identical vaccines are sold under Bosch and other brand names. At any given time, one or another will be cheaper, have multipacks, etc.) There are third party bags too, but their price has never been below the best price I’ve found for original ones.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2022, 05:36:52 am »
Yeah Dyson is not junk, not even close, it’s just expensive. Anyone who says that has never owned or taken apart a Dyson product.
Price aside, Dyson products often feel cheap: the plastic is rather soft, often unpainted. I’ve seen more than one Dyson upright vacuum fail because the plastic broke at the seam (I don’t know the technical term for it: where two flows of material meet during injection molding, and are supposed to fully fuse).

I wanna say that AvE wasn’t super impressed by them in a teardown.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2022, 06:47:35 pm by tooki »
 

Offline Sal Ammoniac

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2022, 06:23:45 pm »
I have a Dyson vacuum, and you're right, it does feel rather cheap. Every time I use it it feels like something is going to break off.
"That's not even wrong" -- Wolfgang Pauli
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2022, 06:27:34 pm »
Dyson is one of those brands that just pisses me of. So much arrogance.

Apple being another.


I just won't buy their stuff on principle. 
Even if it was the best option. (Which it isn't.)

The Project Farm video seemed like a fairly objective test to me, and the Dyson easily came out on top in many of the tests.

I can't recall ever seeing any kind of advertising for them so I don't know what arrogance you're speaking of. I bought mine after using one that a friend had, it was so much better than the vacuum I had. I suspect you have never owned or used one.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2022, 10:45:17 pm »
Hey, pardon my ignorance since vacuuming is the woman's job and all but what's the difference between paper bags and synthetic ones for a non-dyson?

Other than being twice the price, why should I not just get the paper one?

You can throw a paper one away. With synthetic you empty the bags so you can reuse them, and that's when you figure bagless is the only vacuum you're going to get in future.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2022, 11:16:48 pm »
Hey, pardon my ignorance since vacuuming is the woman's job and all but what's the difference between paper bags and synthetic ones for a non-dyson?

Other than being twice the price, why should I not just get the paper one?

You can throw a paper one away. With synthetic you empty the bags so you can reuse them, and that's when you figure bagless is the only vacuum you're going to get in future.
No, he’s talking about disposable synthetic vacuum bags.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2022, 11:58:33 pm »
You get cancelled if you let on you're destroying the climate with synthetic landfill.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2022, 01:48:39 am »
Dyson is one of those brands that just pisses me of. So much arrogance.
I can't recall ever seeing any kind of advertising for them so I don't know what arrogance you're speaking of.

For Dyson, it's mainly the fact that they keep claiming they invented stuff which they did not. Or their terrible marketing lies.

The radio controlled hobby industry pushed the development of tiny low cost high power brushless DC motors.
Then other industries started using the same tech because it was much better. Like power tools.
But Dyson made a big deal about saying they invented brand-new never before seen digital motor technology, when all they did was change their design to use the new brushless motor tech that already existed.

Retracted

There was also many marketing lies.
Like when they were calling their products 'zero carbon emissions' because the new brushless motors don't have brushes generating carbon dust  :palm:

They just go way over the line with their attempts to trick customers into thinking they're the best. Same as Apple.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 01:08:32 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2022, 02:14:22 am »
You get cancelled if you let on you're destroying the climate with synthetic landfill.
Can we not have another of your digressions into absurdity, please?
 
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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2022, 02:23:26 am »
You get cancelled if you let on you're destroying the climate with synthetic landfill.
Can we not have another of your digressions into absurdity, please?

No? But I just picked up the popcorn...  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2022, 04:47:49 am »
They just go way over the line with their attempts to trick customers into thinking they're the best. Same as Apple.

But by many measures the products objectively are the best. Same with Apple too, perfect? No, but better than most of what else is out there. I don't care about the marketing, I like my iPhone and I like my Dyson. Neither was particularly expensive, and both have been absolute bargains for the amount of use I've gotten out of them. I'm no fan of the rabid fanboys but I can't stand the rabid haters either, most of which have never even owned one of the products.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2022, 08:04:46 am »
The radio controlled hobby industry pushed the development of tiny low cost high power brushless DC motors.
Then other industries started using the same tech because it was much better. Like power tools.
But Dyson made a big deal about saying they invented brand-new never before seen digital motor technology, when all they did was change their design to use the new brushless motor tech that already existed.
Dunno if they invented it or not but their "Diginal" motors are nothing like BLDC used in RC or power tools. No neodymium magnets inside. There is a magnet though but it isn't strong.

 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2022, 10:55:11 am »
You get cancelled if you let on you're destroying the climate with synthetic landfill.
Can we not have another of your digressions into absurdity, please?

I was replying to Ed.K who often likes a bit of a joke. It was you that took it seriously enough to 'correct' me and then off we go again. Just lean back,  have a cool drink and try not to be so pedantic.
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2022, 11:23:41 am »
Yeah Dyson is not junk, not even close, its just expensive. Anyone who says that has never owned or taken apart a Dyson product.
I'm just not sure why anyone would spend that much money on a device, that was obsoleted by the robot vacuum cleaners. It's like having the best and most efficient manual washing machine.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2022, 12:08:13 pm »
You get cancelled if you let on you're destroying the climate with synthetic landfill.
Can we not have another of your digressions into absurdity, please?

I was replying to Ed.K who often likes a bit of a joke. It was you that took it seriously enough to 'correct' me and then off we go again. Just lean back,  have a cool drink and try not to be so pedantic.
No you weren’t, you were responding to me. Your reply followed my reply directly, so unless you use the quote function to quote what you’re replying to, then it is understood that you are referring to what comes immediately before.

P.S. I don’t think pedantic means what you think it means…
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2022, 01:45:15 pm »
Yeah Dyson is not junk, not even close, its just expensive. Anyone who says that has never owned or taken apart a Dyson product.
I'm just not sure why anyone would spend that much money on a device, that was obsoleted by the robot vacuum cleaners. It's like having the best and most efficient manual washing machine.

Robot vacuum cleaners aren't the final answer. We couldn't use one here, for instance. Well, I guess we could but we'd still need a normal vacuum to do the 80+% bits the robot one couldn't manage.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2022, 01:47:27 pm »
Quote
No you weren’t, you were responding to me.

Oh, FFS. You butted in so I thought you were playing along. Never mind: I shall just ignore your comments so I won't make that mistake again.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2022, 03:36:49 pm »
Yeah Dyson is not junk, not even close, its just expensive. Anyone who says that has never owned or taken apart a Dyson product.

My sister has one of the fancy cordless Dyson vacs, especially for her dog. The Dyson manages the dog's hair well but I had the joy to take it apart a few times to clean hard to reach corners and fix some things. The vac isn't designed that well, cheap plastic, poor mechanics and other cut corners. Totally overpriced!
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2022, 03:38:14 pm »
Only vacuum worth having is a hoover junior.Simple design,dead easy to strip down,and individual parts available rather than changing a complete motor or beater bar.Added advantage there low power,250-300 watts, and often to do a better job than the  750w-1kw some of todays models use.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2022, 03:47:49 pm »
Quote
No you weren’t, you were responding to me.

Oh, FFS. You butted in so I thought you were playing along. Never mind: I shall just ignore your comments so I won't make that mistake again.
I “butted in” to a discussion I was having before you ever replied with your initial incorrect reply? Ok then…  :-DD
« Last Edit: October 15, 2022, 03:54:56 pm by tooki »
 

Offline Zoli

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2022, 03:52:04 pm »
Just to chime in: it is a reason why professionals considering Miele(to quote some commercial from them: "use now, and 30years from now the same vacuum" - true, as I saw in quite a few places) first in residential areas.
And honestly, I'm surprised that so far nobody mentioned the brand.
 

Offline strawberry

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2022, 04:24:12 pm »
AW(air watts) might be another way how to describe 1% power efficiency

Many of the flashlights are greatly exagerated, however it would not take multiple kW of LEDs to reach those numbers. A 1kW metal halide lamp of the sort used to illuminate parking lots and sports fields is about 125,000 lumens. Recently these are getting replaced by LED lights that consume about 1/3 that.
1/3 may come from reduced light output

L/W (lumen watts) is another . if remember correctly incandescent power efficiency ~0,5% and LED ~10%
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2022, 07:35:02 pm »
Quote
And honestly, I'm surprised that so far nobody mentioned [Miele]

Do they plaster their marketing with bullshit units? Well, then :)
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2022, 12:53:38 am »
Dunno if they invented it or not but their "Diginal" motors are nothing like BLDC used in RC or power tools. No neodymium magnets inside. There is a magnet though but it isn't strong.



hm.. that's odd, I remember reading all about how it was standard brushless tech with a coat of paint.
I wonder if I was tricked with a fake article or just had my wire crossed on that one.

In any case, it seems i was wrong about that one.

Statement retracted


« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 01:07:59 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Bullshit units of measure
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2022, 01:07:02 am »
But by many measures the products objectively are the best.


Yeah, but not by the measures that matter to me.
A product could be amazing at all it's intended use case while still being produced or marketed through dishonest practices.

For me a product is only "good" if its a good product to use AND the company that created it acts in a positive way.
(Or usually just not in a grossly negative way.)   

I like my iPhone and I like my Dyson. Neither was particularly expensive

I think that is really a matter of perspective and wealth, Apple and Dyson both make expensive products and I think most people would agree with that. I don't know much about the longevity of Dyson products which is very important when analyzing value for money. But it's very clear Apple products are engineered with zero effort to keep them running past the warrantee period or next product release.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 


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