Californians out of electricity cant get gasoline to generators!

[orion242]

Just check the off grid sites, there's probably an install somewhere of your description whose owner is willing to share data.

These sites, and they do exist, choose a lifestyle that allows it.  The normal consumer isn't going to go ape $hit and unplug their phone charger when not in use.

I'm talking normal lifestyle.  If you want to chase every watt your home consumes with passion and your willing to give up what most wouldn't, sure you can be off grid.  Is that going to be main stream in my lifetime, surely not.

[NiHaoMike]

I'm talking normal lifestyle.  If you want to chase every watt your home consumes with passion and your willing to give up what most wouldn't, sure you can be off grid.  Is that going to be main stream in my lifetime, surely not.

Many "new" off grid installs don't seem to give up much of anything. Solar panels are so cheap that it makes sense to "overprovision" them.

Here's one off grid install that doesn't seem to take any extreme energy saving methods apart from the off grid system itself:
https://www.youtube.com/user/fliping720/videos

[richard.cs]

Petrol, if your not putting additives in the fuel and running it monthly, its almost certain the carb is going to get hosed up.  Per the reports linked above, a fair deal of the systems couldn't be activated from lack of maintenance or because they where drained for winter.  Can see many that forget about them until they need it, and it won't start.

This is where propane really shines, it can sit in its tank for decades until needed, leave no residue after test runs, etc. An ideal system perhaps would have a pump submerged in an underground tank, shaft or electrically driven from a propane-fuelled engine which can be started remotely or triggered by radiant heat. With a grid charged starting battery there's not a lot of maintenance to do.

Whitewashing the windows before leaving might help à la protect and survive. Interior furnishings can be more vulnerable to radiant heat than the outside of the building, especially if the outside is being sprayed with water.

[SilverSolder]

[...]   The normal consumer isn't going to go ape $hit and unplug their phone charger when not in use.

I'm talking normal lifestyle.  If you want to chase every watt your home consumes with passion and your willing to give up what most wouldn't, sure you can be off grid.  Is that going to be main stream in my lifetime, surely not.

It's a bit like hyper-miling:  it is lots of fun to see how much you can squeeze out of the fuel,  but your family starts to complain at some point!

[MT]

ZeroHedge reports PE&G close if not bankrupt!

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/californias-second-biggest-utility-verge-collapse-next-edison-plummets-after-saying-it-may

[Stray Electron]

ZeroHedge reports PE&G close if not bankrupt!

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/californias-second-biggest-utility-verge-collapse-next-edison-plummets-after-saying-it-may

   Time for another rate increase!

[orion242]

Here's one off grid install that doesn't seem to take any extreme energy saving methods apart from the off grid system itself:
https://www.youtube.com/user/fliping720/videos

Interesting watch.

Watched a handful of them and I wouldn't exactly agree this guy hasn't given up anything.  Early videos he has to swap between 220v and 100v inverters if heaven forbid they need the stove, dryer, etc.

For starters, anyone sleeping next to his inverter / battery setup isn't something I would be up for.  Not against having a setup like this, just not putting my pillow next to it.  Don't put my pillow on gas burning equipment either in all fairness.

Riddle me this....

If he is gone for a week, can his wife operate this monstrosity?

I would love to see the look on the electrical inspector on new construction when he opens that door.

What's the cost on this exactly?   Panels, inverters, BMS, batteries, backup generators, BS utility fees just for service and how many hrs of labor?  And he still seems to need the grid / genys during winter and shoveling panels on a snow covered roof.

If one really wants to install something like this they also have to factor if they plan on dyeing in that home or what the resale value is.  Here in the states, that is almost certainly going to turn away buyers when flagged by the inspector.

There is not a snowballs chance in hell your selling that setup to the common consumer.

[orion242]

And on the thermal storage that NiHaoMike brought up.

Stewing on it more, I would look at radiant floors over radiators/ice storage.  Ditch the ice and just use the mass of the floor / building for storage.

Eliminates a lot of fiddly issues and maintenance.  Very common now for heat/cooling and not terrible expensive on new construction.  Coupled with a tight modern buidling, HVAC loads could be pretty low at reasonable cost.  That still requires a small forced air system to control dewpoint, but far smaller than a traditional system.  Small heatpump might cover it in even northern climates.

[NiHaoMike]

Watched a handful of them and I wouldn't exactly agree this guy hasn't given up anything.  Early videos he has to swap between 220v and 100v inverters if heaven forbid they need the stove, dryer, etc.

If I were designing the system, I would separate the 120V and 240V loads in order to run them from separate inverters, since a dedicated 120V or 240V inverter is apparently more efficient than a 120/240V inverter. Probably also separate the 120V loads into different groups if feasible in order to selectively do V/Hz optimization.

If he is gone for a week, can his wife operate this monstrosity?

I would love to see the look on the electrical inspector on new construction when he opens that door.

What's the cost on this exactly?   Panels, inverters, BMS, batteries, backup generators, BS utility fees just for service and how many hrs of labor?  And he still seems to need the grid / genys during winter and shoveling panels on a snow covered roof.

If one really wants to install something like this they also have to factor if they plan on dyeing in that home or what the resale value is.  Here in the states, that is almost certainly going to turn away buyers when flagged by the inspector.

There is not a snowballs chance in hell your selling that setup to the common consumer.

I'm under the impression it's largely automated now. There's also a recent install of new solar panels to reduce the need for the generator.

The equipment is easily adaptable for install in a new place and most likely he'll take it with him if he moves.

[orion242]

And at what cost?

Lets just talk powers of 10 for simplicity.

[Marco]

Stewing on it more, I would look at radiant floors over radiators/ice storage.  Ditch the ice and just use the mass of the floor / building for storage.

You won't have temperature control. There was someone on the forum doing it, but in my opinion the upper end of his temperature range was uncomfortably warm.

[orion242]

You won't have temperature control. There was someone on the forum doing it, but in my opinion the upper end of his temperature range was uncomfortably warm.

Depends on how you design it.  Would still have a small forced air unit for dewpoint control that could be used to trim things.

Could also see using a basement or garage slab as storage and pulling from that with water 2 water HP for main occupied spaces during low power times.  Could slice the cat several ways.

[MT]

Ronald McDonald Reagans library threatened to burn to ashes!


Wall Street Journals number on fires v.s home insurance,  video voice terrible, sounds like a socialist intern soyboy!
Blaming PE@G who apparently filed chapt 11 in January.

[MT]

Wave guard, external sprinkler system surely you can make your own for very little money!



Even the modest hillbilly solution would work.



Dude with underground tank.



Dude with DIY ruuf sprinklers.

[MT]

Video of cabin saved by forest fire due to sprinkler system.







House in AU saved by DIY sprinkler system.

[maginnovision]

Maybe you haven't heard but CA has water problems especially Southern CA where we currently have 4 fires going.

[MT]

Maybe you didnt notice many of the sprinkler peoples take water from tanks they buried in the ground! That's the whole idea to limited water resources. Its called preparation.

[maginnovision]

Maybe you didnt notice many of the sprinkler peoples take water from tanks they buried in the ground! That's the whole idea to limited water resources. Its called preparation.

You have no idea how many people are here. We wouldn't have water for showers if the idea was even remotely popular. Stop pretending to know anything about California because you look at sensationalist news all of the time. I can't even water my lawn unless I want to risk a large fine.

[MT]

Maybe you didnt notice many of the sprinkler peoples take water from tanks they buried in the ground! That's the whole idea to limited water resources. Its called preparation.

You have no idea how many people are here. We wouldn't have water for showers if the idea was even remotely popular. Stop pretending to know anything about California because you look at sensationalist news all of the time. I can't even water my lawn unless I want to risk a large fine.

You just talk lot of BS by moving goal posts by while beeing butt hurt by pretending not even have water to drink yet you take a bath every day you hypocrite.. How gives fuck about your lawn! Geee dude get a life!

[NiHaoMike]

California is pretty close to the ocean and seawater can definitely put out fires. Sure, exterior metal objects might rust faster, but who wouldn't agree that a house still standing but with some rusted parts on the outside beats a burned down house?

[free_electron]

Maybe you didnt notice many of the sprinkler peoples take water from tanks they buried in the ground! That's the whole idea to limited water resources. Its called preparation.

That may work if you are in some remote area, but in La ? the permitting alone is going to be problematic.

[orion242]

Would think it wouldn't be too costly to have a truck full of seawater delivered to your storage tanks / pool.  Seems to me some pools use salt to prevent algae. 

Hell even in CA the envrios should see this as combating climate change and sea levels rising 

Temp sprinklers on the roof.  Simple, effective and low cost.  KISS.

Still need a pump and storage.  That guy above using a 5# propane cylinder seems comical.  Wet things once, out of gas.  Piss around and swap fuels...still having to store petrol.  Hopefully not burning alive when the heat of the fire quickly drys whatever he covered.

Petro has more energy per volume, trade off is you need to run the system regularly.  If I was to stay behind on a fire, I really need that equipment working.  IMO the added hassle of a quick monthly test would be worth the added run time & knowlage the system is in working condition.  Already have several things that need it anyway and do the same.  Snowblower, lawn mower, chainsaw, etc.  Additives and monthly 5min run, it just works.  In the rare case it doesn't, not under pressure to get it back in service.

Don't really mind storing it at home either.  Have smoke / heat detectors all over and its far from the bedrooms as it could be.  If the house does burn, getting out isn't an concern.  Storing a fair bit, hopefully make sure the home is a total loss before the FD can arrive.  Much rather deal with total loss than fix something you can never get that smell out of.  Was in a school that burned and first visit I could smell a fire like it happened yesterday.  Asked about it and was told the building had a fire some 15+yrs earlier and they repaired it.  No thanks.  Get out first, call the fire department last.  When they arrive, tell them there your a prepper/welder and loads of fuel and ammo in there LOL.

Burns to ashes, think of the money saved in debris removal alone.

[Red Squirrel]

The sprinklers do seem like a good idea.  Since California is so close to the ocean it would make sense to have a "salt water system" in addition to regular water supply that would essentially be mildly filtered sea water for use in applications where salt does not matter such as putting out fires.

Guess the issue is it would corrode any metal inside pipes. Guess you can use plastic for everything.

[maginnovision]

Is this a troll? You guys want to salt the earth to prevent fires? Even if it were a workable solution the greenies would absolutely never agree to it. Not even on a small scale.

[orion242]

Even if it were a workable solution the greenies would absolutely never agree to it. Not even on a small scale.

?

Draining the sea they claim is rising.  Seems a perfect fit.  Should have tax credits to do so if that's their case.